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London Bombings Please tell us your feelings and views on the terrorist attacks in London. Comments received: Well, I don't know what to say about all this. I am 3/4 English, 1/4 Scottish, and a white Brit born and raised. I've never had any problems with muslims I know personally, and am friends with many. Yet I hear so much about how they burn poppies and insult our brave soldiers (the middle east war is for oil and is wrong, but our politicians are to blame - NOT our soldiers). I just don't know where I stand on Islam. Why christian colliding with united states to fight islam with no course. They are kidnapng children. Killing muslims everyday is there priority. @LasseLundster I m? sorry if I upset you, by all means you do have a right to express your opinion, however I just suggest you express them somewhere where no one is going to disagree with them. Post them here by all means, but it s likely that urgoing to get quite a few people disagreeing and quite a few different ways.
Bombing in London to get the UK to remove its troops from the Middle East was similar in intent to the Madrid train bombing in 2004, to force the country attacked to remove its troops from the Middle East. It is a policy of using violence, pain and loss of life, limb and property to effect change, instead of using other options available, such as the art of diplomacy, or the ability to use nonviolent means to return land title and property to prior owners before occupation. Reading various comments on this article, it is clear that our Muslim friends think that they are the victims. The other religious group think thy are the most honourable lot. Well, How about privatise the religion, i.e. one can practice any religion of their choice but inside their home. secondly, Religious education should be banned from schools. Any one wants to learn, they will have to learn privately.In short religion should be seperated from politics.
every muslim is not a terroist,and every terroist is not a muslim!
Ameen - Nato intervened in an attempt to protect Innocents irrespective of whether they were Muslims, Christian or members of the Flat Earth Society. Muslims were only supported in serbia when UK/USA forced the kosovan muslim liberation to disarm and disband. The point is if UK/USA wanted to genuinely protect muslims they would have acted early. The feared this, becasue the muslims would have established a safe and secure islamic state. Munir - Since various Muslim countries already have or are trying to acquire nuclear weapons, what we are looking at seems to be technological catch-up rather than moral objections.
Funny how it is the NATO Christian countries which are dropping the most bombs and killings the greatest number of humans for the past several years ... First use of Chemical and Nuclear weapons was by a Christian .... To all you Muslims who think you are hard done by.You must know that although Christianity has its violent past it no longer encourages killing anyone. Islam is different in that it encourages the murder and annialation of non-believers. How can you support that sort of religion? You must surely understand that there is no place in the UK for Islam. Our country abhors your Islamic violence. You shout of being victimised but continue to support the flawed idealogy and extremist nature of Islam I'm sick and tired of terrorism being regarded as religious, it's POLTICAL!! I'm also sick and tired of trying to defend Islam on the matter of terrorism. Those suicide bombers that want to kill themselves, should do it on there own...not kill innocent people with them! The non Muslims who say 'go back to your own country' and the Muslims who say 'it was the Jews' ... please try and find some new arguments! Both groups are disrespectful to the victims. Terrorists have killed their bros&sisters! The British back U.S. led forces has used the war on terror, to destroy minority groups in their own countries, under the pretext of terrorism, misguiding the world makeing us believe is insurgence out of control.
To my Muslim brothers and sisters, Stop
I am elated that the three guys who planned to blow up the planes have received life sentences by the Judge in the case today. I hope these guys rot in hell as they should for their evil and vile intentions to maim and Kill innocents. I appreciate that they dont stand for Islam so let us all agree Christian and Muslim an dall other religions that these guys are evil and should never be free! it seems that everyone's eyes are closed actually that the media is succeeding in brainwashing - you only know what 'they' want you to know.
I feel as though people these days are forgetting the true and simple ways of living that are ancestors had.These days all that people are chasing in their lives are material things, money,property and fame. they seem to forget that we take nothing to our graves apart from our iman and deeds.These people that call themselves terrorists for the sake of god should just spread their message some other way instead of taking lives. U.N. led forces are hardly a universal panacea - remember the Balkan massacres all under the eyes of impotent U.N.troops? The only soldiers who should be in Iraq are those who were born there. This transfer of power is now underway. Let nothing interrupt it. The war on terror is actually increasing the likelihood of more terrorist attacks,the British & US has used military might to try to keep the lid on the problem rather than uproot the cause,such approach particularly the 2003 Iraq invasion heightened the risk of future terrorist atrocities, and as part of the war on terror only spawned new terror and camps for jihadists.Sustainable approaches in fighting terrorism would be the complete U.S.led Invaders replaced with a UN stabilizatin force Beville Florida - A definition of terrorism must involve a situation where civilian rather than military installations and personnel are the primary target. Robert, your comments regarding violence whilst well intentioned are a little ridiculous. The world we live in has been shaped by violence even before we learned to hit each other with sticks. War is violence and we have been fighting wars (for better and worse) and will continue to fight wars, it is in our nature. Some of the greatest advancements in technology for example have been as a result of our urge to do each other harm. Having a muslim name and comitting a crime is not terrorism, terrorism is everyone's problem.European and our own intelligent agencies has manipulate events destablising Governments&trade unions etc. like in the dossier to justify comfrontation.To understand the present is to investigate the past
The gap between the have and the have nots is far widening due to the uneven distribution of wealth, the solution is equal oppertunity, and not seeing it not as a threat but a promise, a hand up not a hand out.
I think that the various posters commenting on the Luton situation are terribly misguided if they think that 15-20 protesters can represent a large section of the population.
Nathan, Gunhilde: I am born and bred here and consider myself as English. I pay my taxes and live within the law of the land. Just like you I am appalled at the behaviour of the few Muslims in Luton this past week. Even more so that their spokesperson is given airtime. And yes there is a double standard. I pity all of us, but more those misguided fools who perpetuate hate in my name. David and Nathan - What we had at Luton was a prime example of double standards. A Dutch politician is refused entry into the UK in case he inflames and offends Muslim opinion but the opinion of the native Brits as seen at Luton is irrelevant to the powers that be. It is this double standard that offends. However there are various elections coming up soon - Payback time for every politician who has ignored the concerns of the electorate for too long. An angry public WILL be heard. To David, Huddesfield,
Violence, no mater what banner or cause it is propogated, is still violence. Violence only begets more violence and has never solved a problem. Innocent people are always the ones who suffer. Violence is unacceptable whether it happens in ghettos in Palestine or on trains and buses in London. I see a lot of hate here..
Salaam! I am an English-born, US Citizen. I am a convert to Islam. True Islam, not the Islam that has been hijacked by a small group of terrorist fanatics! Read the Qur'an people, follow the Sunna, stop the violence. Violence only begets more violence. Nobody wins in war, nobody! Whatever your religion, pray for peace, and those of you who spread hate and racism, pray for forgiveness, judgement day will one day come. Insha"allah you will be ready to be judged for your deeds.
Dear Smith.
Killing the innocent is a long Muslim tradition, London, WTC,Shia against Sunni & vice versa; so what are you complaining about now? Islam is the one true religion. It will continue to be the fastest growing religion.
Human kind must find enlightenment. Where this enlightenment will come from I do not yet know. Look at the past 100 years. How much has been wasted and destroyed because of wars around the world. All the lost lives, the pain and suffering. The lost possibilities of where humanity would be if not for war. It is time for all wars to stop. Without a change of course the human race can not survive.
ISRALIES HAVE NO HEARTS!!! I MKE DUA FOR ALL MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS ESPECIALLY 2 EVERYONE IN GAZA..INSHALLAH IN THE NAME OF ALLAH EVERYTHING WILL BE OK..WE NEED TO HAVE FAITH AND MAKE LOTS OF DUA AND PRAY 5 TIMES A DAY! THIS IS ALL FETE, IT WAS ALL WRITTEN! ALLAH WILL PUNISH THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE SINS AND TAKEN PEOPLES LIVES! FIGHTING AINT GOING TO TAKE ANYONE ANYWHERE IN LIFE!!! this comment is 4 essexkid, london, United Kingdom
The Israelis had every right to bomb gaza.First, it is their land ceded to the so called palestinians as a sop to the arabs.Israel should take back all the land taken off them.If the arab nations left Israel alone they would be bombed, but as you want to continue to attack Isarel you can expect to be attacked in return.There is no such nation called palestine, never has been. Check out ancient maps and you will not find such a place.palestine came from the romans who renamed Israel. Beville - The bombings in London were barbaric - so was bombing the civilian population of a country which had never attacked us. I very much doubt that any bereaved Iraqis who have had to bury their children will take any comfort in the thought that they died as a result of "collateral damage". You are to be congratulated for your epic stoicism in the face of other peoples suffering. The people of Iraq and our own troops deserve better than they've got from people who think like you. What happened three years ago was dispicable and abhorant to any peace loving human being.
The bombing in Baghdad is collateral damage, the bombing in London is barbaric terrorism, there must be a balance exchange compatible for comprehensive developement for growth this way migration,poverty and crime would all be at a minimal, the solution is communication and physical growth. i'm not telling a person in what they should or should not believe maybe you should listen to dr. zakir naik lecture about this matter Sidra, High Wycombe: Actually it is you who are wrong! The doctrine of the Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit- three divine persons who are one divine being, ie. God. Just like you would not want anyone to criticise what you believe, it is wrong of you tell another what indeed they should or do believe. THIS MESSAGE GOES TO JACK lONDON, YOU DO BELEIVE IN 3 3 GODS BECUASE YOU GAVE SAME POWER TI THE HOLY TRINITY, GOD AND JESUS WHICH JUST CAN HAPPEN THEREFORE YOU DON'T BELIEVE GOD IS ALMIGHTY I'm against it in any case. islam religion to recommend that we should do peace and to bring justice in the world. UK is country of refuge may be it's the reason why happened the terrorist attacks, it's juste intuition no more ????
Just to put the record straight for my part anyway. I'm a Christian and do not believe in 3 Gods. I do believe in the Trintity.
Summeya - The IRA had a political agenda based on Irish nationalism at no point did they express an interest in forcibly turning everyone else Catholic. We have had preachers in our streets calling for the beheadings and deaths of the kaffirs. Similiar sermons have been recorded in various mosques. After years of kowtowing to this we have finally had enough. Sadistic desires? From the people who brought as recorded beheadings and praised such barbarism. God you've a cheek! All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing. muslim or not, if everyone sticks together and stops these terrorist atrocities then I wouldnt be in Afghanistan right now and we could prove that there are muslims who disagree with extremism and we can single out the culprits and re-educate them. education is the key, especially in the less fortunate countrys like Afghanistan. If one reflect on IRA and all about their attacks, one learn nobody imposed on them general religious guilt. Things in Muslim countries are far away of good thus one can count somebody will be punished for misconduct. As one see, in UK under coverage anti-terrorism one can fulfil all sadistic desires without any consequences. London bombing is over paid by Muslim suffering wherever Britons just point a finger towards. I see all as Western jihad against even my 50% of Muslim blood. Ash: No, it isn't a crime to be a muslim. It is, however, a crime to not be a muslim in some 'Islamic' countries: the Bible being a banned book, religious police, death sentence for apostasy, poll taxes specifically for non-muslims etc. Is it a crime to be a muslim? Sidra: The phrase 'the pot calling the kettle black' springs to mind. I think, therefore I am!
"Rubina" you are just a hear say person, you don't know facts from myths, you choose to believe that that will favour rather than the religion itself, and as a matter of fact women do work in saudi arabia, whee's your proof that they don't unless you seen it yourself the rest don't count as evidence, even if itt's a minorty it's not the religion as a whole is it?, how do you maybe they choose not to work, you ever thought about that. Sidra: Your comments begger belief. I don't know whether I should laugh or cry. I'm assuming that you are either a teenager or in your early 20s. You have no idea as to what you are talking about or what you truly believe. I fear that you are being brainwashed by some misguided fools who have their own agendas. You do know that in Saudi, women are not permitted to go out on their own, have careers or even drive cars. I don't recall reading that this is how it should be in the Qu'ran. And please check the meaning of the words racist and biased!! How many religions are legal in Saudi? And since when was a religion a race? Sidra, High Wycombe: If you actually READ my post, you would realise I know the true version the Qu'ran is NOT the one printed by Saudi Arabia, and distributed through the world (at cost), encouraging all Muslims to hate-the same inspiration for suicide bombers the world over-your website may be more productive rooting out that evil and encouraging the world to tackle it. If, as you say, Islam is so incompatible with the U.K.-then what are you doing here? "Michelle, Burnley" i think you should get your facts straight for starters, Saudi Arabia has the most oil, than any othr country and it is People you know hu they are don't you?, from america who are trying to distort the message of islam, i don't refer the the whole of America as you do to the whole of muslim,s no you see i'm not that biased and rascist you might want to check the website my.opera.com/muslims/ before more of your distorted views!!!!! Sidra, High Wycombe: Saudi Arabia uses profit from the sale of oil to print re-edited, hateful versions of the Qu'ran-the very cause for TRUE Muslims getting a bad name-therefore, in your (I'm guessing by the spelling) teenage eyes, NOT a true Muslim country-Rubina is one of the few Muslims actually welcome on this country because she knows what she's talking about-shame you don't! All those of you say "go back to you own countries" to muslims well i'll think again, without oil supplies you wouldn't even have an economy, let me just remind you you get oil supplies from, Saudi Arabia you know from a muslim country!!!!! so who wants to challenge that... and Muslims are not to blame for 7/7 becuase whoever did blow up the buses, could not be a muslim, the meaning of islam is peace, and anyone who doesnt' follow the way of a muslim, thus cannot be a muslim. NE1 GOT NEFYN 2SAY! I have only one thing left to say-open your eyes, and look beyond.
I feel sorry that these people can not live in peace. Forget there nonse about a silly things. Why cant Muslim live in peace with us English white people. I feel the Muslims Have brought very little to the UK to make it a better place. All we ever here is you Muslims moan how hard you are done by.I have left my once great country because how dangerous you muslims have made England. I now live in Spain and why did you murder all those people in madrid. Just face it you want to kill us white peopl no religion = no conflict
IF AL MUSLIMS GO HOME THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN !
Itchywitch, London, UK: Do you know what a "trollop" is? It's you who needs to get your facts straight before making libellous remarks. Muslims kill Muslims the world over everyday; why aren't you up in arms over that? To kill one human being is like killing all of mankind! Non-Muslims can be innocent too. It really is people like you who spout off utter nonsense that give Muslims bad press. Perhaps it is you who needs to get their facts straight first! first of all..religion is true, islam is the greatest religion!SO GET THAT through
J, Suffolk, United Kingdom - you are ignorant about historical thoughts and ideas. Medieval Christian Theologians thought the earth was spherical - the flat earth idea was a fictional 19th century idea. Fundamentalist atheism is as big a threat to our future as fundamentalist religion. If the world and humanity is to progress then we must find a way to live with both science and religion. ... believed the world was flat and some thought the world was a disc sitting on top of a tortoise swimming through time. I wonder if humans will look back at religions of our time and laugh the same as we do at these crazy ideas (which seemed plausible at the time) I also think its silly that people pray for strength or thank god for the food they buy with thier hard earned money. My point is that we should stop living by dated ideals and realise religions do conflict, no religion = no conflict R Nash is right. I am atheist, reason being because i don't believe in anything unproven. I don't understand why people feel they need guidance from holy books thousands of years old which tell stories of people walking on water and feeding 5000 with a few loaves of bread or that you have to pray facing east and can't eat certain types of meat - in my opinion this is crazy. We live in a scientific age where we make advances every day. These holy books were written when some people...... Frank, London: I quite agree! It's ok for Muslims to kill Muslims in their 1000s, but all hell breaketh lose if a non-Muslim does. It stinks of hypocrisy. Raka you said - "Mulsims are of course eager to protest when wronged especially because majoruty of British media fails to address the millions of people killed in Iraq. Watch the suffering of these people and then tell me that Muslims should not protest"
Its not an Islamic way to kill any person be a Muslim or non Muslim . All this happen because their is Politic's inside and those who did to take their life were wrong .
Unfortunately, in Australia, Haneef's case is not a single example of proceeding with criminal charges without sufficient evidence. In Queensland, Vincent Berg's and some other cases are not less alarming. It seems that the rule of law and respect to legal evidence and individual human rights are in danger of being replaced by "witch hunt" practices. In response to Damian: It is through your ignorance of understanding of the Muslim faith that you tar us all with the same brush. Great effort has been taken by members of the community who are law abiding British Muslims to ensure that terrorism is banished. Mulsims are of course eager to protest when wronged especially because majoruty of British media fails to address the millions of people killed in Iraq. Watch the suffering of these people and then tell me that Muslims should not protest It's a shame when 'religion', in today's age, 'Islam', is used as a face for frustrated individuals in a minority, frustrated by the political situation. Russ, you are right in what you say. It is our misfortune that we all cannot live together especially as Christianity was built upon Judaism and Islam on both. We all share common a common denominator but it is this that divides us all. Frankly, I'm happy to be a minority if that means I accept who you are and what you are without judging. Sorry Rubina, but surely religion IS the cause
Damien, Preston, UK: That's my point. These people are wrong in what they do and are misguided in their beliefs. Thankfully they are not the majority. It is foolish and close minded to assume your interpretation of your faith is 'right', when others are 'wrong'. Surely this is the problem - that people are unwilling to open their mind to other possibilities ... ?
Greg Mathews, London, UK: It is not religion that creates division amongst people. It is a misunderstanding of what is being said that causes this. All religions teach the same message, but some will choose to distort this message. The difference between them and I is that they believe they are right but I know I am right. A sutle but great difference. I hope you see my point. Muslims have been welcomed to this country. England has become a multi-cultural community, and tolerant, despite its past. I am a native person of this country, who has seen in my 44 years of life the country of mainly English colonised by people from other countries. From my point of experience, I struggle with religion, and believe it brings a lot of grief. Religion (or belief in a God) ought to bring happiness and coordination between people. But it doesn't. Instead it creates division. Re-inforcing what LB said ...
Paolo, UK: Muslims have not declared war on anyone. Some mis-informed fools believe they are fighting a cause. What cause might that be? As a Muslim myself I have no idea. I seem to remember that during the war the UK interned many Italian people who were quite lawfully living in Britain - my grand father ws one of them - and so I thing that during these times of war when the Muslims have declared war on us we shouldbe interring muslims until the war is won. Hello mr. Brown, as you have just assumed office of the prime minister, you are of all. so, try as much as you can to bring peace in united kingdom, not to segregate either of the religions. Because always non-muslims are thinking that terrorist attack is always from the muslims in the whole worldwide which i believe it is not correct. Simon-What hateful deluded fortune cookie did you get that quote from? Since it's obviously racist lets ban it. Or burn it in the streets perhaps? But we Northern races won't do that. We would rather read books than burn them. We believe that using the brain God gave us is not just a moral choice but a duty. It is the capacity to fight ideas with ideas that separate us from animals. We will help, when they are hurt,those who aim to kill us. Just who are the beasts here? ok so - i can tell you that the soul of the beast resides in the northern races. All of the major evils are there to be found. I would hope that we can move away from this. It is very disgusting& disturbing to note that the persons who are under oath to save the lives of sick & ailing people are alleged to be involved in the attempts of killings of innocent citizens.Nothing worst could be more shocking.I pray to God for this not to be true.Otherwise one would lose faith in humanity. As British Muslims, we are often presented in the media as feeling group-victimised whenever one or more people are arrested under anti-terror legislation. Yes, our community is like a body which, if hurt in one place, feels pain all over. But how does one relieve oneself of the pain of cancer except by attacking its source within ourselves? Why can't we all just get along? Why can't we just all live side by side, enjoying our brothers and sisters? Like it or not, black, white, yellow, asian, african, english, german, or no matter from what country we reside, we are all human beings and it saddens me to no end, that we cannot all live peacefully and united.
Dear Deen - Muslims have not ruled Spain, India or most of the Balkans for several centuries. The fact these people are not Muslim tells me that once your armies were driven out the populace having been once exposed to Islam - chose another way. When Muslim countries have enough courage in their faith to ban the death sentence for apostasy and when women have access to all your mosques - then and only then can you lecture me on the virtues of Islam. Muslims ruled spain for 800 years, today 98 per cent of spanish people are Christians. Muslims ruled India for 1000 years, today 85 per cent of Indians are Hindus. Muslims ruled the Balkans for 500 years & today 80 per cent are Christians. I think this is enough evidence to say that under the Caliphate the Muslims didn't go around colonising lands & converting people to Islam by force or massacring them. Rather other religions grew under the Caliphate. Yes, mistakes were made at times during some periods and Muslims will never be in denial about that. But we can not compare that to the denial by Western nations over centuries. we cannot not continue to watch our brothers and sisters being MASSACRED in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Chechnya etc. YOUR KIDDING RIGHT?? Saddam hussain and his henchmen tortured and killed thousands of his fellow countrymen, who are MUSLIMS, Blame uk/american foriegn policy all you want, but where where the other so called muslim countrries when this was going on, or is it o.k because it was muslims doing it to other muslims. cont - later than the West - What is a camel jockey if not a slave? When Muslim armies sat at the gates of Vienna twice - in 1529 and 1683 they were not there on tourist visas but to conquer and colonise. We in the West admit our past - you deny yours and one is left with the lingering feeling that the Muslim worlds' real problem with imperialism is that they are no longer successfully practicing it. Nazrul We are not the only ones in denial. How many Christians died as both the Caliphate and the Ottoman empire expanded? The crusades were originally launched as a result of the aggressive conquest of Anatolia by the Selijiq dynasty resulting in the loss of Jeruseleum. If someone conquered Mecca would Muslims not try to retain it? The entire Viking slave trade was designed to sell captives to the Caliphate who were consumers for the trade. Muslims continued the practice much - cont West/Europe has always been in denial of its past and present oppressions and victimisation of other people around world. The crime against humanity caused by West cannot be matched by any, Just to list few:
Why all these things are happenning, why the killings in Iraq, Afghan., Palestine etc. pls I want all the E.U Countries to think of it. Does it mean that muslims are not human beings or what? We are all children of Adam; all from a common source. Pity we can't see that. Pity us and pity our children. Nasiru, Nigeria - if it is a "duty for EVERY muslim IRRESPECTIVE of ethnicity or LOCATION to fight back", then doesn't that make you the rot from within ?
I wonder how in God's name anyone can claim the right to kill another? To even think that way, puts that person at odds with God who alone has the power over life or death. No man has the right to take power from God. The man that does so, is really insane.
Regarding the comment from Nasiru from Nigeria. This just says it all. As can be clearly seen on our TV’s every day the vast majority of people being killed in Iraq are by other Iraqi's, not westerners. This proves you are either stupid or simply another nutter and blind to the truth!
You need to understand what Islam is! what is Jihad? the whole muslim world is under a serious attack by the western world, it is a duty on all the muslim irrespective of their ethinicity, location to fight back. can't you see the killings in Iraq? is there any diferent between the life of an Iraqi and that of British? what of the paletinians? are they not humans? the westerns must pay for their injustices. Islam preaches peace as well as equally to all Having read many of the messages here and I still have mixed emotions about Muslims. My first reaction is best summed up by a response to the first comment by ngugi eliud, Kenya. When will Mulims stop blaming the Christian West and Israel and start realizing that their own leaders may be the cause of their poverty? Secondly, We are faced with 2 faces of Islam. One that wants to live with us, and one wants to kill us. For our survival, we fee forced to view all Muslims as potential enemies. I have mixed opinions on this matter but people have to understand that Islam is the way of mankind. A true muslim would never bomb because Islam is a peaceful and focused religion which should only allow true muslims To all:
it's a joke that right w muslims are trators to this country kill inocent people and in that 7/7 attack killed muslims aswell and they think they are doing a justice to their religion i am right wing and proud of england but the muslim religion reads peace and strength of unity not death to inocent men women and children the muslim right wing are able to say what they want and no-one can say anything order needs to be brought because soon there will be serious problems. It's hard to comprehend that our Muslim kids engaged such a vicious behavior.It's sad that humans are so vile,instead of helping one another they're killing. God forbidden killing, Regardless of ones race or religion,unless other-wise,you're attacked.My question's why anybody wish to blow up another? Nobody's blowing me up-
My thanks for ALL your posts,Rubina.They really are the voice of sanity in this discussion. As a convert to Islam I find them very helpful. "Mr Akojja, Lagos, Nigeria" Why? why not watch the videos of Mr Khan telling me and my countrymen of all races and religions that he is at war with us? It seems to me that people who want someone else to be involved will believe anything. Also, why not solve the muslim/Christian problems in your own country before trying to invent solutions in ours?
Sumayya, you say "if" 9/11 was perpetrated by Muslims & yet you "firmly believe" it was a result of US/UK foriegn policy,so where's the "if"?
Sumayya. Firstly, massacres in Iraq are from Sunnis fighting Shi'ites, so spare me the brothers and sisters stuff! Chechnya has nothing to do with US/UK policy. Afghanistan was run by mysogenist drug running militant extremists who attacked sacred Buddhist sites; perhaps this was down to Buddhist foreign policy? I have considerable sympathy for the Palestinians so lets leave it there. However, the Qu'ran directs Muslims to attack nonbelievers irrespective of foreign policy. This is plain wrong The atrocities that happened on 7/7 was inexcusable,and if the acts were perpetrated by Muslims, then these men are NOT martyrs and these men were NOT fighting a holy war,regardless of what some may belive.
Dr Mohammed - you are having a laugh, Islam means Peace, oh really - there is little if anything to support that statement anywhere on the planet.
Rubina. Fair point. Glad to know you are happy to be on board. The radicals will get their comeuppance; it's just a matter of time..... Tim, UK: I don't oppose the indigenous culture of this and neither do many other Muslims. Unfortunately a few do and it is their voice that is heard. A sad but true fact. Rubina, It takes more than being born in the UK to be British. Many British colonists were born in the Countries they colonised but were still expelled by the indigenous peoples when the Empire withdrew because they had not integrated. Do not be surprised if the indigenous people of Britain don't like being colonised either. Multiculture is so over. 'Multi race one enriched culture' is the way forward. You are welcome to join in but don't oppose the indigenous culture as it was here first xxx The Truth, UK: Most of us Muslims wear the Poppy. Most of us do not plot to blow you up! Pay for me to relocate to South London and I'll glady go home. SADDO!!! nicely said susan but it's the likes of you do gooders like you that have got us into this situation that we have now. Mutlicultural we are you say not to divide but birds of a feather stick together, divided we will end up, how long does it take do gooders of your similar ilk to realise the inevitability of human nature. Personally i can't wait for my chance to leave the UK and are planning my escape, then i can leave it to the likes of yourself, you will reap what you sow. sick of muslims making themselves out to be victims.. if you do not like it here then go home.
i would like to know wewather malcolm x or maharma gandhi would see the us invasion of iraq as a justified response to the september 11, 2001 attacks Shazia, Firstly when you say (ur cuntry doesn't support wrong-doings!) Let me remind you that you also live in Great Britain. So you are part of this Country. And as a citizen of this country lets leave all that to judge who is wrong and right to our leaders. You rather concentrate on your studies or work and try to improve your spelling!!!!!!!
I would like to say that we should use our God given intellect to react logically and rationally rather than emotionally, which will only serve to confuse situations further. I urge the people of GB to ask for, nay demand for an independent inquiry, a true independent inquiry. If one looks at the offical conspiracy theory logically and impartially, one can't help but notice huge contradictions. Those who carried out the Bombings were Cowards and evil.They kill for their so called "religious beliefs" how stupid and ignorant they were,"what have they achieved"?-NOTHING,If they were alive today, "why not use the power of the Pen, and use it against those they see as evil."
Steve,
shazia, let me remind you - hezbollah attacked an israeli outpost killing israeli soldiers and taking some hostage. There was peace in Lebanon before that. Lebanon was beginning to prosper again economically. Hezbollah put an end to that. Yes, Israeli bombs fell but as a response to Hezbollah's act. The truth is, if Hezbollah hadn't committed that raid, many people would be alive on both sides and Lebanon would continuing its path to redevelopment. There is no need for Hezbollah. IF the terrorist attacks in London were carried out by muslims, then they were misguided, islam means peace, the holy quran, says that anyone who kills an innocent person ,it is as if he has killed the whole of mankind, even in war, muslims are not allowed to kill women, children, the old, even to uproot trees. For example, post 9/11, in the usa, the quran became bestseller and 20,000 americans became muslim within 2 months after reading the quran and realising that islam means peace. Surely if God had a problem with people he is powerful enough to act by himself. It's religion that has deluded the human mind into hatred of other humans. I grew up in England with Blacks, Pakistanis, Indians, people of all races and religions and you never heard of much racism back then, at least within the younger generation of people. The Bible & the Koran both promote killing so its no wonder the people that follow these two main religions are going to in effect end up killing each other. I am a young mualim and i do not agree to terrorism and i also do not agree with the way this country is towards us. We did not do the bombings! so why should we have to stand racail hatred from British people.We did not encourage this.etc.Jewish did thee first attack on Lebanon not Lebanon so they started the war. And yet bush and Blair back Israel. Now tell me that ur cuntry doesn't support wrong-doings! I think any bomb in a civilian area is pure murder and this is against all laws. Committing Suicide while doing it is worse, suice is illegal in Islam and killing innocent civilians is also illegal. The bombing brought down the face of Islam but it that one day helped us to experience what it is like in Iraq etc... Even though in Iraq etc.. it is much worse.
John Loftus, a terrorism expert and a former prosecutor for the US Justice Department, revealed that the so called mastermind of the 7/7 London Bombings, Haroon Rashid Aswat, is a British 'Intelligence Asset'.
Your article poses a question that might be asked by debate 'Are you British or Muslim ?. Well a similar question mught have been asked some few hunded years ago , 'Are you English OR Roman Catholic ?. Yes the question may have had to be asked because THEN an allegiance was called for to the Rome POPE or the British/ English Crown ?. And so today , except the Roman question has been largely answered but now it may be the Moslem one has prominence ?. BE British and let religionsettleitself? So why not have a distictive 'European Muslim' identity?. It is here anyway ?.It is distinct from the militant fundalmentalist attitudes in other parts of the world ?.The young men infected with the 'terrorist' attitudes deplored it seems by Western muslim adherents are so it seems by contact with the excitable from abroad ?. Just as Christendom had the Eastern Rite and the Roman rite at a point in history , so might muslims without sectarian or other violent expressions ?. Jonathon, Ipswich: I cannot comment on what you have said in that the translations that I have read do not invoke the same sentiments as yours. English is my first language- I do not speak or read Arabic so have not read the Quran in the language it was written. I have not understood as you when I have read translations in English. I will continue to say that murder and suicide are not condoned in Islam even if committed in God's name. I am mad about Islam. I am mad that the religion of peace has not been so peaceful. I am mad that I can no longer take my favourite perfume on a plane, and I am mad that when I travel, I pray to G-d that I will make it home, not from a crash, but a madman destroying life becasue he was "mad". I get mad all the time, as a Jew, I have a lot to be mad about, but I do not want to lash out on innocents in London, or LA to make a point. Islam needs reform now, or the world will lose, and so will you. Rubina -
Rubina - you have some points but...
Jonathon, Ipswich: ... cont...
Jonathon, Ipwich: ... cont...
Jonathon, Ipswich: In response to your questions and statements to me, I will give you my view.
5. Many people are against immigration as a whole now because Musilms have made such a bad name for themselves. (agreed not just Mulsims, there are some others too) I know Mulsim people born in the UK who are marrying cousins abroad to get them in the country and then divorcing so they can do it again and again. This is commonplace and Muslims i have spoken to, who used to be my friends, say they dont care and while the opportunity is there they will take it. We are idots for standing for it! 3. Why should we fly in fear of being blown up by crazy radical Muslims? You asked for seggregation at Alton Towers, i say seggregate flights. I doubt a plane full of Muslims would get bombed do you?
Rubina - i need to be educated here and have a few points i would like you to answer....
What is happening to this country of ours? Why do citizens in our community want to destroy their neighbours? Violence creates violence! Our society has always been one of freedom and debate!! Do not blame the suicide bombers. Blame the evil brainwashers who poison innocent young minds in the name of religion. What god would want such blood on their hands? What sane mind would justify this. When will it stop? When we all face mecca? I cannot believe how anyone would want to destroy the very country they live in, for if it were not for the UK, you my sir and your disenfranschised fellow "Muslims" would not have a place so kind and friendly and free to live and say or do as you do now, you my sir would be in jail, or tortured or killed if you tried this in one of your former Middle Eastern Countries from which you came or originated from, British Muslims need to accept the responsiblity and discourage any terrorism now. Oh yes , in case any should wonder about the Proverb from the Holy God's Word- the Bible- 'Better a LIVING dog , than a DEAD lion ' surely it shows that when death comes there is no more UNTILL the resurrection when ALL shall appear before the judgment seat of Christ to receive the rewards for all that they have done whilst in the body- during their lives.
Contrast Gordon Brown's portrayal of a u.k muslim community benefitting and contributing to the common economic prosperity- and , probably , living in peace and harmony and getting on with the business of LIVING . Life itself can be and is precious. Those young men who apparently went on to do themselves harm and maliciously and deliberately harm others may have been decieved OR mesmersised ?. 'Better a LIVE dog than a DEAD lion ' says the Bible.God Himself gave us life ; do NOT MURDER it !!!! Many anglo-saxon - or Irish descent British might object to the current uk policy , but how many of them take it into their heads to commit carnage and murder and suicide among the civilian population just because they object to that poicy ?. There is NO excuse for murderous intent and ambitions by 'infected' British citizens whatever their pique?.
Muslims, you will moan, demand and murder yourselves into a british backlash, you have invaded Britain and are trying to undermine our freedom, one day the people of this country will wake up to thius fact and you will ALL be thrown out. I know you will not publish this as you are anti free speech and scared of critisism I wonder why there is concern about President Bush's allusion to ' MUSLIM FASCISTS' ?. Surely the president is distinguishing between those who are facists and murderers and suicidal rather than thosae who are not and are ordinary muslims wishing to get on with their lives ?.
once again our country is under attack by muslims. when are we gonna wise up to these guys? Please listen to me.. I am NOT a Muslim, but an English Christian.. Please believe that 98% of British people are anti Blair; anti Bush, anti Prescott and also that we very Much blame the Israelis and Bush's American administration for the unfair & unbalanced sit in Middle East. Pls understand that If there was a referrendum th vast majority here in Britain would be totally AGAINST ISRAEL & BUSH & BLAIR... please believe me.. with Love.. I notice in your editorial and diagnoses that you say the July 7 explosions were not 'religious motivated'?. But why try and hide the extremist nature and dire action which some choose in their understanding and demonstration of Islam.
Im english born,i follow no religion,i am honest,i have intentionally killed nothing,i love my family,i love my fellow man,i dont drink alchohol,i don,t smoke,i,m faithfull to my wife,i,m not on any benifit,i will help anyone truly in need,i don,t support violence,i,m not circumcised but i keep myself clean,i dont eat pork because it,s full of toxins not on religious grounds,i am at peace with myself,i believe freedom to be the greatest goal for all mankind,i could have been on that bus,am i bad While the IRA was bombing the UK mainland 99.9% of UK Irish came out and condemned the bombings every single day - 25% of UK Muslims think 7/7 was justified. Interesting... MUSLIMS AND ALL OTHER FOREIGNERS SHOULD MOULD TO OUR SOCIETY, WE SHOULD NOT CHANGE FOR THEM. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY OUR COUNTRY IS RUN, GO BACK TO WHERE YOUR FAMILY ORIGINATES FROM. YOU CAN CONTACT ME ON 07940537950 IF YOU WISH TO DISCUSS MY OPINION. Mike, Newcastle: I'm not part of a pantomime; perhaps you are! Suicide and murder are NOT condoned in Islam. Read and then read some more. If you don't understand read again. I don't need to rely on others' philosophies to know right from wrong. Methinks you do- afterall an amoeba is single celled organism, how could it think for itself! Gary Vandenbosch, Maryland, USA: As children we are taught by our parents what is right and what is wrong. If we then commit a heinous crime as adults, who do we blame- our parents or ourselves. Islam is NOT evil. Those who purport to know and expolit the ignorant for their own means are. Murder and suicide are not condoned in Islam, no matter how you flower things up and what rewards are promised. "Suicide and Murder is not condoned in Islam"
In reference to the article about the Canadian visits by the British Imam and Franklin Graham, the difference between the British Imam’s visit and Franklin Graham’s visit is that everybody knows that Graham does not and will not encourage followers to strap on explosive belts and go out and murder innocents in the name of God. Firebrand Islamic clerics have a strange habit of urging their ilk to seek out glory and 72 virgins through mass murder. For this reason, Graham is right, islam IS evil Suicide and murder are not condoned in Islam. So by virtue of this statement alone, 'suicide bombers' who kill in the name of Islam are not martyrs. Look at it another way, Muslims believe, mothers who die in childbirth will go to heaven. Does that mean that all women must pray for their own deaths during this time so that they can enter heaven? People need to get a grip and not use either their own or someone else's beliefs to justify what is done. They aren't funny looks Aisha.
Pat, leave your lib dem views to yourself you dirty scutter. That fact remains 53 people were murdered in the name of Islam. Despite your wet lettuce views, you can not get away from this.
I'm not a Muslim, I'm a Christian. And I'm glad to know that geniune Muslims do not believe in violence against innocents. We are a multi-cultural society and we need to work together to stop these fanatics. If anyone in the Muslim community thinks they know someone who is recruiting would-be suicide bombers, then make sure they tell the police. There's no shame in shopping a potential murderer. Because that's what they are, just common murderers. Not martyrs, just scum. @Mike. Christians have killed more 100x more people in the last 100 years than Muslims. And don't forget the Holocaust was in Europe. after the london bombings people always give u funny looks on the bus and trains July 07 06
Richard Mason - its odd isnt it, that the right wingers are usually sounding off about the mayor & his multicultural leanings. In hot water for speaking to the IRA & rad Muslims - yet as soon as he speaks in favour of the police on this one occasion people want to put the boot in. Talk about caught between a rock & a hard place ! Richard from Stratford says it`s common knowledge that the police are racist. Yes they are : they`ll bend over backwards to help a minority,but when a guy born and bred in this country needs help as a result of crime,l they don`t want to know. @the big one! I think the US loves the sand as well - they can't resist interfering with those sandy (oil rich) countries. And by the way, the USA has developed from foreign brains from poor countries - no more - the USA is no longer an attractive destination. You guys better start educating the homegrown cowboys - yee haa!!! It is common knowldge that the UK police are mostly racists, so this latest should not surprise us, nor should the London mayor's support for the top cop Blair surprise us. The evidence so far given along with other facts blatantly unreported by the popular media leave me with little doubt that this atrocity was commited by people with a much higher adgenda than the accused. As an english conservative I am ashamed. I really and truly do not believe these young men were guilty. MUNIR: You need to look more deeply into 'The Crusade History' and get it right next time:-
when muslims are going to realize how much brainwashed they are!!! It shows that many muslim are brainwashed and sick minded and has become very evil.only sick animals kill inocent humans in the name of god @Martin. Did you reflect big time after the UK bombed/occupying Iraq - ILLEGALLY? What do you think the Iraqi's should do with the UK/US "guests" in Iraq - they are asking them to leave ....
Geoff Winton.This is the very problem :Islam may well be peaceful (like most religions), but if NON peaceful people claim to be Islamic (or Christian or whatever) then what are we supposed to think? Particularly when few speak out loud & clear against the violent ones.Its not enough to say that these people aren't Muslims when they appear united under that banner.Mosques that perpetrate violence - should those not be called mosques?
Just send the muslims back to sit in the sand where they came from! Obviously as you can tell by the bombings in London last year, you can't trust any of them!
Also, people would argue that if immigration were stopped and only everyone with deep heritage to this country stayed, more problems would arise.... And so what!? if an asteroid hit us we would have to survive, im sure we can survive without a few hundred thousand asylum seekers, millions of scrounging ethnics and with the crime from both wiped. Granted the would still be dole seekers and criminals, but OUR criminals who WE will deal with how WE see fit with none of this racism phobia rubbish. @Martin - I dont know. why do we take it? I didnt ask for this country to be turned into a multicultural ghetto. Why should we have to accept immigrants? why should we have to let any that are here stay? i think the time has come to have a serious look at the type of people we have in our country and the problems they bring. Regardless of who is right or wrong, no immigration = no problem. Muslims by nature bring problems so... no muslims = no problems. i have reflected big time after the 7/7 bombings, and see it as this.
SADIQA:
Islam is a peaceful religion so even those these men claim to be muslim I dont believe they actually are.I believe these people to be Killers and use being muslim as an excuse. Keith Scott, Sevierville, USA: So what? Your government together with mine has destroyed much more than what you helped to build. I wouldn't boast if i were you! People who help others do not ask for appreciation, it is shown to them by those who they help without asking. Greed took you to Iraq- the mighty Dollar- had you stayed at home, you would not have earned what you did. It was money that drove you, not your humanity. Go eat some humble pie! John, Bristol: Let's hope that the youth of today will provide for you in the future. Yes, the climate is changing, but will it give you what you really want? The grass is always greener on the side- even the three billy goat gruffs knew that! But isn't that where the fairy tale ended? @Gordon. The 'insurgents' your refer to are simply resisting an occupying military presence. What would you do if Saddam justified an occupation of the UK on the grounds that the UK was going to attack Iraq? Although some may argue the US/UK presence is legitimate following the elections - this is contrived - the command and deployment decisions are conducted without counsel from the Iraqi government. Why is it that misdemeanours by US personnel are not tried in Iraqi courts? It shows once again that you lot stlii have the blinkers on and cannot see further than the nose.The terroristic activities are carried out by muslims on christians, and now we hear you leader weinging that the christians are attacking Islam. You have to be Joking. Oh dear it appears the political climate is changing and the BNP are on the rise.No longer will Britain be the dumping ground for the worlds scum.Im personally very pleased as I never asked for the multi cultural society that was foisted upon me! In the name of Allah, the most Merciful, the most Beneficient,
people need to wake up and realize that most americans do not hate muslims. the war in iraq freed your a@$es to have a normal government in which you can make healthy decisions and send you children to school. i personally helped build 4 schools for girls and boys. at least show appreciation that i took my time to help others! And what happened to forbidden killing? the usa government also forbids killing innocents and guess what the deeds of one affect many!!! They way this news gets reported you'd think that the racism was only one way. We all know that others, Muslims included, are just as, if not more so, intolerant of others beliefs and skin colour.
Munir. The real fear I have, as against mere irritation, is the manys statments I hear that you consider your "brothers and sisters" to be, not us the "indigenous" people of this country you choose to live in, but insurgents in Iran, the Taliban. Palestinians etc.
why do you lot hate the usa,and what it stands for, the war in iraq better with saddam are with usa,????????? @Ed. Don't blame the Muslims for the Saudi policies. The House of Saud, just like Saddam Hussain was a product of the West. Blame the US and UK for their continued support for a one-man show. Sorry, but many Muslims don't agree with the Saudi monarchy. Oh and by the way, the UK has a BRITISH - not 'english' government. @Gordon. Muslims have not imposed anything on others in the UK. The Judiciary, Police, Parliament, Military, Senior Civil Servants are hardly representative of the 'minority' Britons. Nobody would have belived this had it not been videoed. But these are not one-off attitudes.
Munir,further:your ignorance,twisted rhetoric & bigotry really are quite staggering.
Munir, i doubt any of your family fought and died in those wars, some of mine did and died for this country, so would I. 2nd. Were the people who bombed the underground led like oblivious sheep or were they thinking for themselves then? Or is it different for Muslim aggressors? I thought those days were over Munir!? I doubt the British public will have to be forced into anything, people are getting fed up, lets see what happens after the next bombing. stop kicking off! Please tell me in what regard are British Muslims 2nd class citizens exactly?
Munir: The French capitulated in 1940 to Hitler. We fought alone for 2 1/2 years with our troops from england and her empire. You can be sure that if Hitler had won he would have soon turned to rid the world of not just the Jews but their blood relatives, the Arabs. Ismael and Israel! sons of Abraham (Ibrahim). England recognized the evil of this man and we stopped him. No creed can live by the sword and expect to go on forever. Christians says love one another not believe my creed or die. Munir, why should the English allow mosques when the Saudis do not allow churches? You call for equality and tolerance, how about some from your side? Are Korans banned in England? Are Bibles banned in? Saudia Arabia?
munir: are you saying that to love my country and be willing to die to defend its values is akin to being a BNP member? Munir - as tragic & racist as ever.You appear not to run down the BNP,yet seemingly do all you can to swell their numbers.
@Munir - If a Muslim is 2nd class in the UK and 1st class in an Islamic country then why are they all here?
@Ed london - I know i'd be in the front line with u mate!
@Ed. Thats why so many 'english' were shot for refusing (cowardice) to fight in the front line in WW1 and WW2. France did a better job in WWII - 5m French volunteered compared to 800,000 in England. What do you think 'conscription' means - people rounded up and FORCED to fight - study history, or are you one of the less literate BNP members? munir, 2 continue from prev. post:Those days are over? Do me a favour. U R in 4 a very BIG surprise if U think the English won't fight to defend our king & country. We know, understand & CHERISH our values, monarchy and country & we are not about to let them be removed by ANY alien culture. Why should we? The blood of countless free Britons has been spilt to defend those values & heaven forbid we need more 2B spilt but rest assured, if attacked we will, as Churchill once said, never surrender. @Keiron. Millions of Europeans and Britons would refuse to fight with Blair's Army in Iraq. Does this make them disloyal? Similarly, the days where people fought like blind sheep for King and country are over. Citizens are now thinkers and not aggressor's pawns. Also, a Muslim in the UK is a 2nd class minority, whilst a 1st class in the Muslim world. Which is the more sensible option? @Keiron. Why don't you ask Robert Maxwell, Gerald Kaufman, Lord Goldsmith, Lord Justice Woolf, Alan Sugar, Malcolm Rifkind, all the Jewish Students Unions (who are affiliated with the Israel embassy) who they would back if there was a conflict with Israel? Similarly, no Scots or Welsh consider themselves British hence they have their own Parliament. Munir - I'm sure we'll get by, although your comedy interludes will be much missed. Aloha. What we need to be looking at is what has driven these young men to such extremeties for them to have committed these attrocities. the pre-recorded video of sadiq khan refers to him be a soldier and "My People", these young men have been lead astray and brainwashed. How can anyone, whatever their faith and belief accept this was and is the right way about resolving and overcoming oppression!!
Ed, London: Each to their own! To Russ/Rubina. This will be my last post on this website. I would like to say that I have enjoyed the banter and hope you didn't take my posts as Devil's Advocate too much too heart. @ Munir - Muslims seggregate themselves in Britain. Do you consider yourself British first and Muslim second? No? If we were forced into all out war against an Islamic country, who would you back? Who's side would you be on!? So many muslims i know say they would have to think very hard and some are proud to say they would fight Britain - the same people who hold British passports. No real Brit would say that, the only thing British about them is thier passports our weak government gave out. @Russ. You misunderstood me. I meant that the white British population (including European WWII refugees, and other minorities including Scots, Welsh and Irish) resent British Muslims partaking in political and social change. On the other matter - what if the cartoons simply said the holocaust was exaggerated to generate sympathy to create and deflect criticism of Israel? It isn't the subject but the snubbing which is 'undiplomatic'. The Danes need to learn about Customer Relationship Management rubina: as a christian i feel no need to understand what islam is about. of course islam alludes to jesus and mary seeing as it cherry picked bits and bobs from judaism and christianity and slapped on a few other bits and bingo, a new religion. and of course, jesus warned us that after him would come others claiming to have the word. essentially, he said under me draw a line. to us, you are the unbelievers, though one day you may see the light, literally! Munir,at risk of stating the obvious, I think it unlikely that 10 EU diplomats would want a meeting about a cartoon in a free press.
Ed: You assume wrong! I do not believe the Trinity as being three separate gods- far from it! You wanted a Muslim to comment on your statement and that is what I did. Islam came after Christianity; both Jesus and Mary are alluded to in the Quran. If you understand what Islam is about then you understand what Judaism and Christianity are all about too. The three religions have the same source; one God- just called by a different name. The sooner the ignorant masses realise this, the better. @Russ. The Danish prime minister refused to meet 10 diplomats REQUESTING a meeting. Would the Danish PM have snubbed 10 EU diplomats?
@Munir - you miss Joe's point. The cartoons were funny from the Dane's point of view. I dont think 2nd class citizen is true, Brits just think Muslims are so hard line and you prove it in your comments taking things the wrong way, ok dont buy danish - just ignore them. 2nd, in the UAE if an Arab National gets hit by someone in another car its not thier fault, no matter what. There's many laws like this that protect locals abroadand treat others like 2nd class but we accept them. Yes be grateful! Munir,surely the Danish prime minister was right to keep out of it - why should he apologise for a free press? OK it was tactless & inconsiderate but to some the Da Vinci Code,Life Of Brian & episodes of South Park are also. Were the cartoons deliberately "printed to insult" any more than them-or is it that some muslims cant take satire?? Some can & some cant,it seems..
rubina, i assume you are saying that you too believe the 3 god matter to be the case. my point is to show the total gulf that exists between our two cultures and understanding of each other. also, you should be aware that christians too believe that god has commanded them to turn the world into a christian place, and that includes saving all muslims from the surefire hell, that you, as unbelievers, are certainly headed. sound familiar? :) I see that there have been many comments about the crusades. Primarily the reason was not to spread christianity,for most it was to gain personal wealth. As for the "enemy" Saladin was an enemy to be adnired. He sent his personal physician to treat Richard coeur de lion and gifted him with horses saying that a king should be seen on a steed that befits a king. We should learn from the humility of such a great muslim. Certainly saddened @ the emotionally disturbed people who committed suicide via killing others, I'm also sad how disturbed people here in the U.S.A. label whole religions, by the negatives of a few people. Thus, my apologies to those wrongly affected. Please know that many, many of us are of higher level. Peace & love to all!
@John. Does that include 'Anglo-Saxon' Muslims like Mathew Wilkinson (former Eton headboy), Joe (son of Frank Dobson the cabinet minister), John Birt (son of John Birt former BBC Director-Genereal). Do you consider them vermin as well? Or do you refer only to brown-skinned Muslims. You are nothing but a racist islamophobe. @Joe."cartoon protests." Violence, or threats of violence, and damage to property is unjustified. Would you buy from a shop which went out to insult you - that is more dignified and exercises Muslims "freedom of choice". Unfortunately, the Danish PM arrogantly refused to meet Muslim ambassadors at the start - hence the embargo on Danish products. DONT BUY DANISH ..... @Joe. Thank you. My comment on the cartoons is that it is the intention as much as the action. The cartoons were not intended to be humourous - they were printed to insult. Muslims do have a humour but this does not extend to gratuituous insults. Also who is the "our" you refer to in "our humour and way of life."? Are British Muslims not expected to take part in the political process in the UK - or are they 2nd class and should just keep quiet and be grateful for being in the UK? Ed: You may be surprised to hear that many Christians too believe the Trinity as being three gods!
The killing of innocent people in any country is a crime, be that Afghanistan Iraq, Spain or the U.K.
Fellow Christians might be surpised to learn that Muslims think we beleive in 3, yes, 3 gods. Any Muslims want to comment on this? @Munir - thanks for your point - I agree with you, we have brought it on ourselves a bit with old policies dating back many years set up during our 1st tradings etc, they need to be axed and immigration re-thought. You didnt respond to how the Muslim world overreacts to cartoons etc in comparison to the rest of the world. Do you not think the Muslim Community should accept our humour and way of life? It is Our country and our way of life Muslims are moving to, not the other way round. Muslims are vermin who come to pillage the wealth many generations of our white anglo saxon forefathers have built and harbour desires to turn this country into an Islamic state.Their religion has no place in the civilised world.The BNP are now the only party who speak for the indigenous white population of this country as the other parties go ever more to the left crippled by political correctness and pandering to the ethnic vote.Wake up Britain before it's too late!! @Jimmy. The corollary is - most of the foreigners dont want to stop interfering with Muslim countries because the benefits there are too good (i.e. oil). The immigrants in the UK are not bombing, abusing prisoners, torturing and forcing regime change (ie. terrorism) - compare that to the US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq ... soon Iran? Joe, Ipswich: Have you actually read what I have written in both these threads? Please read again and then perhaps you might see further than you already are.
Jimmy, Liverpool: You have made some really crass comments. It's mostly the white so-called Christian population who live off benefits in the UK. As a taxpayer, I have the same sentiments as other tax-payers. I teach in a school which is attended by mostly white children and guess what 95% of their parents are on benefits- so your comments regarding this are futile. I agree with you re. the law of the land. Perhaps some of us are more English than you perceive; and we are Muslims too! Samanfa',fanx for your support & carefully chosen words. @Joe. I can see your point. The asylum and immigration is a direct result of the UK colonial past and Western foreign policy of bombing and propping up dictatorships in Muslim countries. If you burn my house dont be surprised if i seek refuge in yours. Why are they ridiculous? It is more than obvious that Islam and the rest are not compatible. Just as Communism and Fascism was not acceptable to many. It can be no coincidence that where Muslims in Numbers are in the West there is conflict.
i'm catholic english , idont feel much loyalty to england but i live here so i have to live by this countrys rules and so should everyone muslims included. if i was to slander an african or pakistani or muslim i would be arrested. so why arnt the people who preach hate and death to non believers of islam arrested, i dont understand it . if you foreigners want to live here behave yourselves. most of you wont leave here cos benefits are too good, you wouldnt live like you do in your own countries Mike: Your comments are ridiculous beyond belief.
we in the UK will take the piss out of religion and anything we get our hands on. Watch Cartman rip into the Jews in Southpark! Are the Jews waving banners outside embassys!? Other cartoons and programmes on UK TV joke about all religion, it seems Muslims must be the exception, i mean rallies and banners in London because of a Dutch paper! Islam seems to have no leaway for anything. It is either right or wrong, you are either Islamic or condemned. (yes i have read the Koran before you ask)
@ Mike i agree, why can we not co-exist? because unfortunately Islam is an extremist religion in comparison to our own (christianity, catholocism) we feel threatened that Islamics have the potential be turned into terrorists and have seen it in our own streets. we should segregate, (cant do that though, much nicer here than Islamic countries isnt it!)
what is wrong with you people. get out of the 12th century and learn how to play on the playground. did you miss share day at school???
paul, newcastle, United Kingdom
I know this does not concern ALL Muslims etc etc but why shouldnt Brits hold reservations about Foreigners when areas of cities are mass invaded (eg Leicester, Brit Nationals are the minority compared to muslim immigrants) We see on tv how immigrants from poorer countries bring lesser hygene ideals (smokies in butchers, 25 people in 1 flat cramming as many relatives in as possible claimign benifits. I see it daily!) I am no racist but cant u see why we think like this!? Sort yourselves out! If as Muslims say they want to simply protect their so-called religion, then why not do as the Communists did in the USSR and same for the Chinese, raise an ideological curtain around Islam and Islamic countries?
The joys of a 'mulitcultural' society huh? How many westerners I wonder flock to the middle east for the better way of life and do this shit? Go Home. I'm a Christian and cant beleive what i am seeing in papers and on our streets. If this were the opposite way around and Britons were arriving in an Islamic country preaching ideals of murder and inciting hate against the country they had moved into, would it be accepted as lightly as in the UK? Would they stand by while a man dressed in a Suicide Bomber outfit protests, he should have been shot but now is in a British prison taking my tax money instead. If anyone doesnt like this country, leave Freedom of Speech v Insulting Cartoons.
Your right rojer. You tell him Munir,it would take too long to patiently explain all your racism "asians make the best accountants" is a start, & "obsessed with paedophillia" (glass houses again). You really do get hung up on this "your lot are worse than my lot" crap. Ive already explained why you perceive an obsession,I refer you to my previous answer.
ima proud muslim nd i am furious to see hw the world's teaming up against muslims. they r litereally taking the piss out of our faith by drawing pictures of the beloved prothet(SAW)Christians dnt understand us so they go and b prejudice 2 islam assuming wer evil people. islam is a strong religion and we actually stick 2 the islamic laws given by ALLAH. unlike other religions we dnt go round makin up things writtin in d holy book (GAY VICARS?)i suggest u nonbelievers read d quraan b4 u judge any1 @Ron. What would you do if they were in your house - uninvited? After all it is a house. And what would you do if they came into the Zurich national library defacing the books - they are books after all? In both cases - you would have them arrested and you would be outraged. Why expect any less from Muslims? Russ/Rubina: Since when has obsession equated to racism? Dhillon was finance director and not a manager of employees. Clearly, Asians make the best accountants as well as chefs otherwise he would not have got the job. Russ spurious facts which YOU have been proved wrong.
It seems to me that the ideology of Islam is floored somehow with paranoid dilliusional thoughts about what it means to be a Muslim. It seems as though violence is always bubbling under the surface and any little thing like a cartoon is an excuse to release what I can only describe is hatred. If Islam is meant to be a force for good then it is either being distorted by fanatical clerics who are jealous of the western world or it is simply fundamentally floored - which is it? Russ, I do not see any point to your reply. I try to deal in facts which I and most thinking people can ascertained by deduction and reasoning. Lies like the "thesus, 25 minute warning", you may have a short memory but I don't. Every point I've made can be verified by you if your ever take your head out of the sand. What has the shoot to kill policy got to do with "see what you look for" syndrome..? WAKEN UP. At least think out your reply. Give me a token gesture of brain activity on your behalf how dare you foreigners come into my country insulting my true white british patriots. The more you threaten to murder us, the more you do your cause harm. I used to be a moderate person. I now actively support the BNP, as with many thousands of us already. Carry on like this and I think this problem in the UK will finally solved. Munir: A little touchy aren't you? Perhaps I've hit a raw nerve.
Munir,as one who trawls the internet looking for spurious facts to fuel your racist bile,& given your earlier comments,I felt it relevant to bring to your attention a recent court case where one Ravinder Dhillon,a finantial BOSS for Gate Gourmet received 12months for misappropriating thirty thousand pounds to invest in a Danish company...I'm NOT saying he was muslim,but I doubt he was one of the "white" bosses you villified.
I am a British Christian and proud of it!!and i and appalled the way the muslims not only in the UK but all over the world are shouting death to 'all'except muslims..i do not understand how so many people on this planet can be so evil!and react in this way over a cartoon! The mentality is unreal and i will say it seems you lot want to dictate to the world..but NOT MINE....OK
@ Munir
Munir,more to the point is that it makes the news HERE,just like "domestics". At least we are open & publicise such things because we try to stop them rather than turn a blind eye or live in denial. Hence what you perceive as "obsession". Try using reason instead of pedantry.
Munir: Once again an obtuse response. I hope you are not suggesting that only non-Muslims expolit children when it comes to sex! Geat real! Munir, Munir, Munir. I see you spout the same tripe on the BBC Have Your Say Thread; change the record flower! @Rubina "Child jockeys". What an extraordinary insinuation that Muslims are unconcerned when crimes are committed against children?! Are you referring to yourself as one of the "so-good muslims" - if not who are you pretending to be? There is no need to go to UAE to see children being exploited - paedophilia is an obsession in the West. @Rubina. YOU are responsible for giving a relevance on a topic YOU have raised - dont try and wriggle out of this by placing the burden of showing this onto me. To all you so-good Muslim males and females: What say you of the child jockeys forced to race on camels in the UAE? Do you even know what I'm talking about? Perhaps you have no view as the crimes are commiteed against children by Muslims. Rog',Rog',Rog....where do you buy your anorak's ?
Hassan,I'm not Muslim so I hope I'm still able to have a valid opinion for you.There is no difference between any killing of people anywhere.People shouldn't feel more or less sorry for the deaths of innocents according to whether they share the same religion/race or not. Sadly people all over the world are guilty of doing this.I personally can't stand all this violence in the world whether it's against Muslims or Non-Muslims.No one's life is worth more than anothers. paul your under the perception that the muslims are behind the atrocities which break peace in the world let me remind you "what you see is not always true" you are basically an idiot who believes what ever you see use your brain I would like to ask my Muslim Brs and Sisters. in UK the following question.
Munir: Your logic and thinking are obtuse.
Frank..so you pick the lies you want to believe? Keep an open mind. Remember "RED HERRINGS"? Obviously you didn't look through the complete DVD or comprehend the subject matter. a waste you silly man! Facts -Scott Ritter Chief American Arms Inspector to UN prior to IRAQ war "there are no WMD in IRAQ". POWELL to UN assembly, 1441 does not allow America to invade IRAQ. Pearl "We need a catalyst,like Pearl Harbour" to allow us to invade IRAQ? Who needs conspiracy theories? Well you do "Frankly" Roger, I have my doubts about the plane that hit the pentagon but quite clearly if you don't believe a plane(s) hit the twin towers then I am afraid that you are caught up the world of conspiricy theories which are designed to hide the real truth. It is a fact that bin laden praised that attack and had been part of the group who were instrumental in the previous attack on the twin towers. I know you wont believe this as you also probably believe khan of the London boming was jewish. Frank.I don't and wouldn't wish to blame any one person. I only hope that people don't fall for the red herrings. Look at www.letsroll911,org that should open your eyes. I've seen the dvd Loosechange. Rational People don't hate.I can't & won't support any violence but look whats been done in "our name". I am unable to support your assumtion that you or I can do nothing, your voice your intellect counts. Knowing whats going on COUNTS We're guilty of complacenty by saying nothing Munir,I'm glad you found one line to take issue with,but to answer you : "YES" ! I do accept your compelling & meaningful statistic - IN CONTEXT.Spurious FACTS,if it makes you feel better - spurious being the key word. Ive no need for the...(sorry,I dropped off there)link,thanks very much.
Rubina: So are you suggesting that you are the product of a Virgin birth? IF not, then what is the relevance to you? Roger, one of the easiest ways of blaming others is to pretend theat they are some "other". I did not want to go to war in Iraq but some people "blame" me as I am English/British. It would be easy to say if you were killed in a bomb attack that "you" derserved it as you are British but I am not as I didn't support the war. However, we all have equal "guilt" and equal "innocence" unless we personnaly took part. The bombers in London were filled with hate long before this war. Russ: Agreed. Also have read 'Lord of the Flies', and understand what you are saying. Who's 'Piggy' in our world today?
Munir: May I remind you too of the Virgin birth. Where was the 'sludge' then?
@Russ: "Spurious Statistics?" Again I give you facts and verifiable references. These are official UK House of Commons homicide statistics which says "A present or former partner or lover killed almost half of female victims." - THIS IS UK STATISTICS or do you not accept this either?
& Munir,whilst spuriously spouting statistics,you might want to check out Amnesty(among many others-I'll spare you the links).You'll find that 50% is a WORLDWIDE figure for women being killed by their partners.
@Rubina "sludge". May I politely remind you that your origins lie in that 'sludge' you refer to - or don't you have any respect for your own begininning? Munir,is it that you're in favour of aparteid to make that comment to Amanda ? Or perhaps you just want to hit back because she & others dealt you a few home truth's... Why on earth shouldnt her children be proud of ALL their heritage ?
Munir: Amanda may be deprived her children of their Scottish identity according to you, but did you stop to think that her Muslim husband may indeed be Scottish too? Her children will learn much of their Scottish ancestory from her.
Rubina,much truth in what you say but I suspect that if Iran had a nuke that "we" wouldnt go to war there either...
Good grief Munir,you sound SO embittered.You mentioned somewhere on this thread that "UK educated & civillised" dont join the BNP - yet come across every bit as prejudiced,spouting generalisations,oblique racism & homophobia yourself. I doubt that many "educated" would have much truck with you either.
Fossils fuel stocks are depleting at an enormous rate. Of course the illegal war in Iraq was guided by greed and perhaps a subsequent one in Iran will be too(God forbid). Children can see through the politicians; why can't some adults? Ignorance of course! Why haven't we declared war on Korea or even some of the rogue African states; because there is no oil! The Middle East-home to all three monothestic religions is a war zone- much history has been destroyed and for what? If Amanda is so proud to be Scottish, then how come she married a non-Scottish. It will be odd where the only person who can be proud to be Scottish is the mother - what a farce on your proud Scottish identity which you have denied your children. @Amanda "Stray dogs". Pls answer this question directly:
Sorry I’m not trying to be smart just honest in my approach to other human beings needs and hurts regardless of their colour or creed and without attempting to enforce my attitudes or my bias on a sovereign nation. May I also point out the terrorists don’t frighten me but your politicians scare me witless. What lies! But no lies in parliament, Mandelson ensured tony didn’t get to read anything detrimental for the case for war!As Pearl did for Bush's case in the US for War.WMD my foot PROFT=OIL! Amanda - Should I mention, he was held down by two other policemen at the time! Sorry if this has hurt your sensibilities! Using White Phosphorous Air bombs or cluster bombs against Iraq civilians again illegal and against the Geneva Convention. This convention your government signed up to! The Americans didn’t however so they can legally murder civilians in this manner. Amanda - And why this type or atrocity will happen again! That why there is such a think as international law. Which your government in your name have totally ignored! Not to mention the shoot to kill policy that is in place that no-one new about! I am unable to be proud of a country which murders people on the tube i.e. the Brazilian engineer shot by the Met Police. Seven dumb-dumb bullets to the head! These types of bullets the Met Police used are illegal according to the Geneva Convention. The point is Amanda that you do care or you wouldn’t be replying to this web site.You may want to, but cannot have everyone to have English credentials or others to have your thoughts of pride in your identity. Regardless of your political viewpoints everyone has the right to a sovereign country. You,me the American or English governments cannot enforce their will on any sovereign country as they have in Iraq. That’s why there was such terrible loss of life on the underground system in London. Profiling those who commit criminal acts is not out of the question. Those who commit terrorist acts (Twin Towers, London Bombings, Spanish Bombings, Televised beheadings, etc) are those who profess to be Muslim and following the Islamic decrees. If law enforcement do not profile such people and give them more attention, then what are we to do? Years ago, did not the police monitor radical Catholics by watching Catholic centers? Where were the protests then? Our children are our future.
Roger - Thought you'd like to know that you can now get passports with Scottish Gaelic in them! Perhaps this might relieve the mighty burden of having UK on the front of your passport! Nollaig chridheil!!!! Roger-hee,hee you do make me laugh!!You completely missed my point & I really can't be bothered to explain it again!I will just say this, I'm extremely proud of my Scottish ancestry and am probably more Scottish than most, my ancestry goes back centuries.I'm also proud to be British. I think you'll find that Scots were allowed to vote in 1979 and many voted for Thatcher!Call yourself whatever you like,I really don't care,people like you will never change! Amanda.. very touchy hey?
Amanda.. very touchy hey?
the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims in Iran & Nigeria.Xian schoolgirls beheaded by Islamic fundamentalists in Indonesia, the list is endless.As is the list of terrible things that have happened to Muslims, & others, throughout the centuries. My point is, no one group can lay claim to more suffering than the other and as I said to Munir, every race/civilisation/nation/religion has a bloody past that it should be ashamed of so get off your moral high horse & stop ignoring history! Irfan-interesting comment you made a while ago about how 'White British...are the most unapologetic about their past?!'I actually think we do nothing but apologise and quite rightly so, many horrific things were/are done in Britain's name. However, I have yet to hear apologies for the massacre of 1000's of Xian Assyrians, the continual persecution of them that continues to this day. The torching of Xian Palestinians' homes, the shooting to death of a Palestinian Xian convert... Faria - Well said!!!! When will you all learn that this conflict, these arguments, have nothing to do with Islam. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but religon is not the cause, it is the excuse. Bad things are done in the name of all religions, but it is the people that do the bad things. Frank - thank you for your 100% correct comment on Munir's answers.I think he would make a fantastic politician as he always chooses to dodge the issues at hand and never answers a question directly!!I also think that he just enjoys being angry at the world and that even if you said that you agreed with everything he said, he would somehow misconstrue this and get angry about it?!!!Munir - you need to chill out! Salam (peace)!! the finger at only one culture/race is pointless!!No religion/nation is innocent,all nations had a bloody past at some stage.You cannot discuss the atrocities of one nation/race & conveniently forget others.What shocks me is that,unlike many others on this site,I have never said anything offensive/untrue about Muslims and yet you seem to keep arguing against me?!!Maybe you have difficulty in matching me to the racist/bad stereotype that you seem to have of white non-Muslims and that irks you? Munir-right you want facts. Yes the British Empire did horrendous things and as you started this I would liek to point out a few things.Muslim Arabs conquered countries like Morocco and Spain by force. They forced the indigenous Moroccan people into the mountains and called them Berbers, which means barbarians. Their real name is Amazigh.Muslim Arabs also partcipated in the African slave trade. So as you can see, every culture in the world has at some point committed terrible wrongs so pointing Frank: Your succint comment to Munir has made my morning! Well said; can't stop laughing... Munir, you said "My references are verifiable". Yes they may be but they are never relevant to the point in discussion. For example if you were trying to prove that a cow didn't exist you would probably send me a link to the painting of the forth bridge. the link would be one that existed but have nothing to do with cows or existance or anything else. Maybe you deal only in abstracts? Amanda: Your posts come across as intelligent and reasonable and a most welcome contrast to some of the dreadful hate-fuelled postings here.
Frank,be careful - he may send you another link...or "a warning ;)".
@Mr Anglo-Saxon! Ancestrally you are just as much a foreigner as any non-whites:
@Jonathan (Freiburg). The US have bombed/killed 100 times more commuters/civilians of other nations than any other country since WWII. Try and prove me wrong on the facts - you will not succeed but will trade insults instead! What is the difference between the Mafia and the US Govt? One takes your wealth and keeps you alive and the other doesn't. @Frank, Amanda.
Roger - In order to be proud of where you are from, you don't have to do others down & I think you and I both know exactly what you meant in your thread so lets not play games hey?!Perhaps, if you are that unhappy, you should relinquish your passport as it says United Kingdom on it? If you are not anti-English/Welsh/N Irish, why do you not wish to be associated with them under the tile United Kingdom? United we stand, divided we fall, and I truly belive that! Roger, Roger, a racist is someone who is predjudiced against someone due to their race. As I don't hate you because you are Scottish, I would say that no, I'm not a racist. You can call yourself whatever you like but whether you like it or not, Scotland geographically falls into a land known as Britain/United Kingdom.By writing 'not British' you were inferring that to be associated with any other part of Britain was offensive to you, which in turn is offensive to others. Rubina- you are fantastic, love your comments!!! We as humans are imperfect and as a result any religion which we follow will not lead to any sort of perfect society. Munir & Irfan, you are not better than me due to your religious beliefs and I am not better than you due to mine.I think that if you both dropped your inner rage and aggression towards others who are different to you, your lives would be far more peaceful & fufilling & therefore Islamic.God bless! that I hate Islam & Muslims then you couldn't be more wrong. My husband is Muslim and I love him and his family to bits. They have welcomed me into their family as one of their own, thus showing the true face of Islam.Furthermore, I in no way said that SA's women were stray dogs, I said that'women were treated worse than stray dogs'. I acknowledege that there is much wrong with Western society as I'm not blinded by alliegance, I suggest you adopt the same approach to Islamic societies. to the thread but thanks for the info anyway. Not once have I said that Muslims are evil or worse than non - Muslims because I don't believe so.Munir & Irfan's comments are disgustingly racist and people like you 2, along with the likes of the BNP etc are NOT welcome in this country.Furthermore, I don't support US foreign policy at all & good for Yvonne Ridley if she has become Muslim,I really don't see what bearing that has on anything I've said in the past.If you assume that cos I'm not Muslim Munir-as usual, your comprehension is abismal. If you had read my thread properly, you would have noticed that I admitted that the UK is not perfect but seeing as you seem so intent on telling everyone that Islamic societies are perfect, I wanted an answer from you as to whether this opinion can truly be justified due to SA's horrific treatment of women, amongst others.On another point, I believe that the Taliban exist in Afghanistan, not in SA so not quite sure what relevance that had Munir
Munir: You really are something, aren't you. You write as a means to your own end- whatever that may be.
Irfan,you seem happy to moan on about Danny, whilst (along with Munir)whinning & slagging off the Brits/English/whatever in the same way yourself,en bloc. Im sure youd jump up & shout about anyone referring to Muslims in the same way. You are all tragically part of a process that pushes reasonable Brits toward the BNP, & reasonable Brit Muslims toward AlQ etc. Class act ! You must be very pleased with the enlightenment you spread & your marvellous investment in the future. Munir: Goodness me! You are a terrible advert for the Muslim man. I know of Muslim men who do not support their children in any way; Muslim men who hunt around like packs of dogs on unsuspecting women just so they can dump their sludge. The fact that a man is a Muslim does not make him pious. Men will be men regardless of their faith you silly silly little man! Anglo-Saxon, Walsall: So, are you of German or French ancestry?
Munir
Those who live by terror die by terror ...
You can't just come to this country and impose your culture upon the British. If you live here you should accept British culture and if you don't leave even if you were born here. And if you're racist to British people you can also get out, we've lived here for thousands of years and you come here and are racist even though we took you and your family in. If you were born here it doesn't make you British. You aren't Scottish, Irish, Welsh or English and England means LAND OF THE ANGLES and you definately aren't Angles or Saxons. Amanda - well written, and i can second every word you said. People like you are rare, and this is why we follow the path we are on now. Things will never change, human nature is too destructive. I try to be an optimist, but it seems like relgions, cultures, colours cant integrate easily without some problems, multiculturalism and multifaiths seems to bring only small rewards for indigenous peoples, the British, the French. The negatives clearly outweigh the positives in terms of quantity. @Amanda (Saudia Arabia). You are quite scathing on your comments about
This is a coward attack upon inncoent people.They bomb for their own achievments which is pure terrorism. Blood for blood is not what Islam teaches.It is 'Forgive' that Islam teaches. When Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was asked by the angel wether to crush the people of Taif for stoning him. He said even if these people dont accept Islam their decendants will inshaallah accept. Today the whole of Taif is Muslim because of Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) patience. He also foragve the man who killed his uncle
Munir, those pictures showed some soldiers sitting in a damaged mosque taking a break. What in that picture was so terrible? In your other picture, someone had painted something on a book.
Amanda, stray dogs do not know who the real father of their children and do not get support from the father of the child - just like a few hundred thousand Britons ...
@Frank: Is this the personal growth you refer to?
Munir,"FREE SPEAKING"...Yep,certainly compared to most of the draconian cultures we all know about - & you're doing alright yourself,even with your little digs at the Brits...Again,doing YOUR bit for the BNP - now THEY should be grateful to you,far more than Gourmet foods to their workers!
@Frank 'Normal'. If normal=majority then being 'normal' is a moving goalpost. And therefore what is normal now may not be normal in the future or in the past. Critically your argument is flawed as 'normal' does not mean being 'right', but being abnormal is always wrong.
Munir you are right in many ways indeed. If the british sent us back to our countries, there economy will be at great loss, because these white hyprocraticals dont want to undertake such labour jobs, they rather be on benefits Munir, You should write that para under the muslim identity forum for people like Danny to see who dissaprove of Islam and its people. The white british think they perfect when it comes to civilisation, but realistictly
Amanda Amanda... why do I have to be anti English...? Why can't I be proud of what I am? Why do I need to have your outlook? Are you the racist? You should allow everyone and anyone the right to enjoy the freedoms of their choice rather enforcing your views. I am neither British nor do I see myself belonging to the United Kingdom. But I will allow you the privilage of calling yourself what ever you wish. regards Munir, you wrote "will have to rename it to Gate Boiled Foods". From your postings you come across as a racist and a homophobe. It is a pity but maybe you could start your own version of the BNP as you seem to share so many beliefs with them Amanda: Well said! The Islam of the Saudis is not the Islam that I subscribe to.
Riyaz: Read between the lines my friend. I have only critised those who feel that they are superior to the likes of you and I only for the colour of their skin! The same who confuse nationalism with religion.
Rubina you shouldnt criticise people for the way they write. Why are you telling Mike to brush up on his comprehen skills. Not everyone is perfect. If you cannot answer a question doesnt mean you criticise them for the way they write. I realsied you did the same to danny under muslim identity. THATS NOT ETHICAL Please look at this picture of what the Christians US Army are doing in Iraq - compare this behaviour to Muslims in the West and we can see who are the more civilised.
Munir, normal is what the majority do so no Homosexuality is not normal, nor is wearing clothes (we are all born naked), wearing headscalves etc In fact being a Muslim is not "normal" as only 17% of the world's population are Muslim. So is not being "normal" also wrong? You seem to spend so little time on personal growth and so much on selecting others to be angry about. What did your prophet say about the biggest Jihad? and what did your other prophet Jesus say about not judging others? Roger - Your comments are entirely valid, however, did you really have to go & spoil it all with your petty '(not British)' remark? Get a grip, I'm half Scottish & half English and proud of both sides & proud to be British. Don't you think there's enough pathetic racism in the world without you adding to it. Come on, be a man not a sheep, I know it's the 'done' thing to dislike the English in Scotland but let's face it, you don't know 100% of the English so petty comments makes you look silly! the person that they are.I don't agree with charities being affiliated with religions as it shouldn't make a difference as to what private beliefs you have as to where or to whom one gives money to.Ah well, I can dream, the majority of humans in this world are too selfish to ever be anything different than what I have just railed against.I would love to shout 'pull your socks up' to the whole world as we all need to do that if we are to survive for much longer. The only way that we can do this, is to stop being so preoccupied as to who's better than who and why, Munir & Mike in particular should pay attention to this.I was recently angered to see that on a 'black' website, they had only named the black victims of 7th July. I find this type of segregation meaningless & disgusting, colour is colour, not a state of mind and absolutely no one is better or worse,deserving or not deserving due to the sole colour of their skin, religion or origin but rather fight for human rights in Britain but then ignore the even more desperate situations of those in countries where they swear afinity to. I saw no one declare 'jihad' on Saddam in Iraq when he gassed all those innocent Kurds, I feel double standards are heavily applied in the world.It doesn't matter where you are from, one death, is a death too many.It's high time that we all banded together and stopped the rise of the meglomaniacs who are systematically destroying all that's good about the world. -who just want to get on with their lives peacfully, Muslim and otherwise. I personally would never go anywhere near Saudia Arabia because I abhor its 'ideals' and personally think that as the home of mecca, it should be a country which is deeply ashamed of many of its actions.Funny how there is money there to fund the 'religious' police but none to hand out to the poor & needy, they get their hands chopped off for stealing cos they are so desparately hungry.Interesting how people are quick to - Muslims either.Admittedly Britain isn't perfect but just thank God that we don't live where you are flogged for being in public with a man,beaten for having the 'wrong' kind of religious literature,forbidden from driving or voting if you are female.At least you have the freedom to complain and have your complaints here heard, you would be beaten or killed for that in Saudi Arabia.I think it's high time certain aspects of society realised when they are well off and stop making trouble for those Munir-as you seem to always take the moral high ground,please explain why Saudia Arabia,supposedly a Muslim country,goes against the grain of the peaceful nature of true Islam.No one can convince me that God condones a country where women are treated worse than stray dogs and you can be killed for your beliefs.Quite rightly, people from every walk of life deserve to treated equally.In fact the Quoran decrees this.All I ever hear is how unfairly people in this country are treated,& not just from @Russ (Gate Gourmet Foods). If there were more 'white' presumably you mean Brits. They will have to rename it to Gate Boiled Foods - after all how many 'Indian' restaurants have white chefs? Then BA will really be in hot water (sorry about the pun)! @Russ; FREE SPEAKING?! Why has Sheikh Faisal been sentenced for 8 years using a law that was last used 150 years ago? And on what evidence is the Hizb ut-Tehrir being banned by the UK Government? Compare this to the white BNP party who have incited a lot of civil unrest. If all the non-whites left, UK would be like Uganda was after the Asians were forced to flee by Idi Amin - bankrupt and looking stupid. The UK educated and civilised classes know this hence the lack of such members in the BNP. Why London,look at the facts. Bush Blair lied to us all regarding IRAQ/Afganistan. Prior to the Iraq invasion, Bush waylayed the courier and information coming from Iraq to the UN. 60% of the information then went "missing". Air bombs, Cluster bombs, white phospherus used on the local civilian population. Pogroms carried out in the name of democracy. God (of any variety) help us all from Bush and Blairs democracy. Sorry to go on,but George Bernard Shaw once said that if you put an Irishman on a spit,you'll always find another Irishman to turn it for you...This is true of all races & all people,so its NOT ALWAYS a race issue when we see disputes involving groups from different backgrounds...Not until we make it so !
Munir,I guess the point,for me,is that the DISPUTE is not a race issue,& I'm not convinced that a few racist comments by bad staff make it so. Again,bad bosses are bad bosses - & cheap labour is cheap labour.
I think that all you people bleating on about homosexuality are suspiciously preoccupied with it.Who cares ? It happens in nature anyway,but if your particular book or personal philosophy says "No",then dont! But coming the moral high ground bit with everyone else is crap! I certainly prefer living in a "deviant" STD laden,FREE SPEAKING,alcohol ridden,TOLERANT yet bonkers society,with all its obvious failings,to some rigid,draconian,moralistic, caliphate.I think most Brits do. Mike, Newcastle: Why don't you read the Tablet or the Pastoral Review, instead of the tripe you continuously reference and quote. May i suggest that you go back to basics and brush up on your comprehension skills at your local adult education centre. Perhaps then you will stop bleating your pro-bnp crap. @Frank. It is clear that that driving up a one-way street is unlawful. This applies not only to roads but to passages in the human body. Surely, common sense and the number of hospitals having to make special surgical re-stitching procedures on those who practice, in my opinion, deviant behaviour, shows which is normal and which is abnormal? @Russ. The Asian businesses you see are FAMILY businesses. Gate Gourmet is not a family business. BA - a national airline - is a major customer. The managers have been known to make racist comments - telling staff to stop complaining as their wage can buy a lot in India! The muslims in Christian lands may riot at the worst .. but look at what the Christians are doing in Muslim lands? Chemical weapons, depleted Uranium, 'shock and awe massacres', torturing Muslims - this is what the Christian US army are doing in Iraq. Further back in Historym the Christian British India was well known for its oppression. And how about the French torturing in Algeria ... come on! The Muslims are much more civilised - pity your eyes are too blind to see it. If the values of all communities were respected and valued with equal justice and that justice enforced, then I agree h/s can be allowed expression. This then should be extended to say muslims girls who wear the headscarf w/o being scrutinised. Yet the "goth" attire is treated as personal expression. Even if religion is discarded as a valued system, then lets have that for all ppl. Included in this would be the curbing of religion in israel, usa and uk. Nice to Rubina still talking rubbish!
Seattke, what are you talking about. All white christian know is how to bully and use their power to invade other countries. Theres no such as christian land. You are not being genuine. You have no idea or knowledge I predict, IN ORDER for you to come to such assumptions. Educate yourself before you drown in your own blood! American-I would like to point out that a US'Christian Minister' has applauded the July 7th London bombings.USA also has a long history of interfering with countries,causing great suffering & destruction.Do I hate all Americans?-No.Before insinuating that Muslim's have contributed nothing,have a look at the history of the US & if you still think that pollution,aggression & greed are fantastic contributions to the world,then wake up!U can't blame a whole society for the actions of a minority. American, Seattle: You are very naive. The USA was not a Christain land before all the 'immigrants' arrived. Perhaps the Native Americans would want you out of their country; instead they are ridiculed and expected to live their way on reservations given to them on their land by you! Now, put that in your peace pipe and smoke it! Arif_HU. Just a small point, you say that the "values" of anti-homosexuality must be respected because it is banned by various religions. Does it not follow that homosexuals themselves have their own opinions on this and should not their values also be respected? How do we know that "our" views, not matter how many others share them, are "right"? No one has given me the right to judge others so I try not to. when will muslims get out of Christian lands? We are not in theirs, except when they are too rich /lazy with oil wealth, and give offers nobody would refuse. I am still waiting for the average French male to assert pride, grab his set, and kick them out...all 5 million of them...islum has given us nothing for a thousand years, and the french for a hundred years..they're just perfect together. All they had to do is give them a simple order; come out again for rioting and take a bullet inyourhead Munir,surely the fact that the Gourmet food managers (that you saw) are white has nothing to do with it.They may well be unfair,& bad bosses but why make it a race issue ? Theres plenty of Asian businesses in my area & I hardly ever see any white people working in them (except occasionally Eastern Europeans) so whats with the big white issue ? Bad bosses are bad bosses,whatever.
Just a quickie,homosexuality is banned in Islam. There is no difference of opinion in all 4 schools of thought, be it maliki, hambali, hanfi or sha'fi. It is one of the rareties where most of islam moderate or otherwise where there is unity. H/sexuality is regarded as deviancy in
Mark,it might take up a lot of your time to get thru'the forum,but not much of mine. Thanks for the concern tho'(& keep up with the incisive comments). Mike, Newcastle, UK: Your quote can also be applied to the fairer sex, can it not?
Ah, the normal name calling is once again expressed as your only defence, yet Munir condemns others who retaliate likewise.
Munir,("warning")Im sure that many vocal people on the site would benefit from your knowledge of the legal system - what law would you seek to rely upon ;-)? In the public interest,Im sure.
We Scots have to put up with your racism, your own hate filled past is catching up with you, I do not believe you are British in origin by your statement since you lived in squalor before you invaded Inda & stole everything. You should go back to where ever you came from (?) Dave, Bristol: Have you read the postings on this thread? It is clearly obvious that many Muslims condemn the actions of a few. Let's get real though, sensationalism sells. Very few papers will write the opinions of those who do condemn these actions, but most will tell the story of a nutter with a hook who speaks against the country who gives him his freedom and luxury. According to the 2001 UK Census only about 50% of the Londoners classed themselves as white British. We saw the debacle with BA on the Gourmet foods - did I know that BA relied on the labours of non-white to provide their meals? No - because the managers/front men are white - and show no gratitude. How can any one exercise a moral right to selectively and hypocritically condemn the bomb blasts in London, when he or she has failed to condemn the ghastly carnage, aerial bombings (with napalm, cluster bombs, depleted uranium and daisy cutters) in Iraqi civilian areas, indiscriminate shootings and killings of Iraqi civilians and children (some times killing entire families), destruction of Iraqi civil society and historical heritage, lawlessness, torture, arbitrary detention and collateral damage, etc., etc., all of which resulted in murder, rape or injury of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children as a direct result or consequence of the USA and UK led invasion ?
Russ nuss: do u sleep, eat and drink this forum. Nothing more better to do Munir, Guildford, UK: With reference to your comment to Russ, I hope very much that you are not suggesting that he may not be who he thinks he is. A very silly and flippant remark! Mike, Newcastle, UK: Clearly you are an amoeba and the evolutionary process passed you!
If the Muslims want to live, work & be trusted in the UK the Muslim community should stand up & march into London & condem bombing 0f July & 9/11. They wont but they are quickly marching against stop & search & they stay in there areas & complain how we British live.Well guys if you dont like it here & our way of life go home to the oppressive countries you originated from its that simple Why did I find this site? Following 9/11 I looke at many sites and their contents - to learn what the hell it was all about. And some of the postings on here do just that. That Islam is not si strong that it canot be questioned, critised or condemned, all due to translation. There is no ability within the Muslim to debate with ALL the facts - so Muslims are pointless a group where like the African evolution has passed them by. The quick resort to name calling is your only defense, as is evident Trevor, Walsall, UK: Islam does not condone suicide let alone killing yourself and taking others with you. I am born and bred in the UK and consider myself as English, with British citizenship and Islam is my faith. I do not call these people "shaheed"; they are murderers and they are the ones who have the warped minds!
@Russ, you seem to take the stance that you and your ancestors originate from the UK - how can you be so sure? Do you know that a third of American men who demand tests on their children learn they are not the natural fathers ....
To Russ: This is a warning - please refrain from name calling you risk criminal prosecution ;-). To Trevor, in Islam is it clear that non-combatants cannot be killed - the Prophet Muhammad applied this principle during conflicts. The situation in Israel is that all Israeli's are affiliated to the Israeli Army in some way - this is a key distinction between the civilians in the UK and Israel. eg. Jewish 'civilians' shooting at non-Jews harvesting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2317839.stm Oh & Marc,we had our own religion before Christianity came here too. Marc,presumably you wish to make some apology for Dutch involvement around the world.Dutch E Indies,Boers & various colonies would be a good place to start.No doubt your home & wages will be forwarded to the displaced & deserving in the near future.Save some money tho'& buy yourself a sense of humour !
Greetings, I recently had correspondence with a young british muslim, who stated that 'suicide bombings such as 9/11 and the london bombings are justified and condoned in islam'. His argument was that war is being waged on islam and the bomber was a 'Shaheed a Shahheed' When i pointed out the MCB stance i was told it was because some british muslims perverted the faith to fit in with the west.
Rubina,Im sweet enough !
Why do we keep letting you Muslims into our UK? You don't assimilate and pose a terrorist risk. Your mosques and "values" are attacking our western heritage. If our sneeze accidentaly sounds like "Allah," we have to kiss your arse and apologize perfusely. Enough! I wish they'd stop immigration. Your country was in a such poor state before you invaded, it wiped out 10's of millions of Indians (of all local religions), just see the Taj Mahal how it was stripped of all its glory. The Middle East had its OWN religion before Christianity arrived so the local have all the rights NOT some invading crusaders. Compensation should be calculated on inflation from that moment & everything stolen given & paid back. Pretending to balanced by some self sooting statements does not prove anything. @Martin Kemp. You are very right, the crusades were only a REACTION to the conquest of many christian lands by the muslim hordes.Countries such as Turkey, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, etc, were initially christian and taken by force and islamized.Additionaly around the Mediterranean, muslim pirates used to raid christian lands in order to capture christian slaves.Needless to say that these assaults took place in a very violent and gory manner.What got into the pope to apologize for that?ro Amanda: sorry if you are offended - but it is a fact that: male teachers are required to keep the door open when in the presence of a lone female student; schools are now required to have individual shower cubicles; instructions now appear that dishes are required to be rinsed in clean water; circumcision has a significant effect in reducing STD and cervical cancer; washing hands before/after toilet (washing private parts still to be taught though!)- these are all Muslim etiquettes! Hey Russ, I've got more sweets than you! So Marc, how do you propose to tell the current generation that reparation is due, & how should it be paid ?
Im no fan of Dubya myself, but if the criteria for madness is having a "hotline to god & merely following instruction",then we can write off most of the major religious leaders that have ever existed.
Muslims are obsessed with the Crusades but have forgotten their own, much grander Jihad. The lands in dispute during each Crusade were the ancient lands of Christendom, where Christians had flourished for centuries before Muhammadfs armies called them idolaters and enslaved and killed them. If Westerners had no right to invade these putative Muslim lands, then Muslims had no right to take them in the first place.
Martin Kemp, London, UK: The Second Vatican Council which sat in 1965 apologised for the Crusades. The site which you have quoted is not based on fact; although it is one that I had read when taking the Cathlic Certificate in Religious Studies earlier this year. Regarding Dubya, I am merely quoting as he says; afterall he has a hotline to God and is merely following instruction. The rantings of a true madman methinks. i think many people get the wrong idea about the london bombings, many people tend to stereotype muslims into being terrorist when islam spreads peace Munir-I take great offence to the comment you made about how 'Muslims can teach non-Muslims a more robust set of social etiquettes'.I can assure you that myself,family & friends are in no need of that.I have seen horrendous things happen both in Muslim countries as well as non-Muslim, no one race/religion is better than the other.Your comment is no better than Mike's.In fact the only person with anything balanced and sensible to say on this board is Rubina! Mike- I find it interesting that someone who so obviously dislikes Muslims has bothered to find their way onto this site and has actually made comments?!! Can I suggest that you go out and meeet all 1.3 billion of the Muslims in the world before making a judgement on a whole people.Your comments are no better than the rantings of a brainwashed, ignorant, vile fundamentalist!I hope to God that my husband & children never have the displeasure of meeting someone like you! Mike,I have come to the conclusion that you are a horrible,man!My husband is Muslim and he is no different to any other person for it.He plays football,works hard, cooks, cleans,plays playstation etc. And before you say it,no he is not an exception.Why should he leave the west when he's done nothing wrong?I think that you should leave the west and go live in a desert where you will be the only one,you intolerant so&so.You always sound as brainwashed as the fundamentalists! Get real & accept facts that far worse thing that do not get reported in the mainstream press are down to censorship, well lets look at Africa it was Britain who kept the Aparthied regime going, 10's of millions were murdered, just look at the Middle East as another example of racist & genocidal policies. You only come out with news that suits you. The threat is from your kind causing religious hatred so YOU are the problem. If you do not like a miniscule percentage of your own medicine TOUGH. To Mike: Why has the Koh-i-noor diamond given an Indian name - the largest diamond in Queen Mother's Crown? And the jewels do not originate in the UK ... so how did they come to arrive here? It is normal for a thief to be required to explain his acquisitions NOT for the police to find out how he acquired them - apply this principle and one can draw the inferences quite simply. The walls and parts of the Taj Mahal were studded with precious stones. These were went 'missing' during British Rule. Oh, and another fact - there were plans to deconstruct and reconstruct the Taj Mahal, but the British did not have the technology to know how to rebuild it - instead the Brighton Pavilion was the next best effort. India was not a Third World country until after British Rule. Compare Leeds Castle with the Lahore Fort and you will know what I mean. Rubina dont be so foolish, you know very well what I am saying. The crusades were a defence agasint the tyrannical spread of Islam, if you read the article that has been researched properly, then you should clearly understand what I am trying to say.
Mike Kemp, London: To quote you "...the crusades were not wars to enforce Christianity, but merely to defend it at that time, mostly from the spread of Islam."
Marc,do you really think that accepting people using "colonialism" as a stick to beat current generations with is going to help anyone get on better-in a world where almost every culture has its past shames ? Hardly ! If 100 - 200 years ago one of your ancestors ripped off one of mine,do you think I should come banging on your door ? Get real !
Who other than the Muslim is killing in the name of a religion?
Rubina I am surprised to look back at your personal comment regarding George W Bush? (Afterall he has a hotline to God, does he not? He's on a modern day crusade.)
MUNIR
The threat to all of us is blaming others for what we have done, the genocidal effects of colonialism is something we have to pay back, so blaming Muslims for the currnet situations is very limited. The 100's of millions murdered down to colonialism is why the World is in this situation. Especially Anti Semitism (muslims are the largest Semitic population) is why the threats against Muslims but not against the cause. I am a Christian & accept real history, not some diluted rubbish. It is no fair than innocent people would die because of politics. Both sides are implicated and everybody knew that civilians may pay for. Some relatives of the people killed feel they have been used in this political war Oh for goodness sake people,stop arguing about who is more to blame for this that and the other.There are good & bad people in EVERY society.Just cos someone does something in the name of religion doesn't mean that it's the religion to blame!All cultures have been involved in colonialism & the only thing that people owe to each other is peace & compassion.In light of recent disasters,who comes from where and follows what religion is really not important!We have 1 life & 1 planet use it wisely! Munir - of course all of this is keenly felt & appreciated by your average ordinary working Brits,who as a result no doubt feel terribly indebted & guilt laden - due to the actions of the people who exploited their OWN ancestors.
Mike, UK: I know history and I know not only about my religion but others also. All people have killed in the name of their religion and contniue to do so today, be it they Christian, Jew or Muslim; or even the non-monotheastic ones. This is not an excuse, but it is fact. You find Muslims a threat that's why you bleet in the manner that you do. There is mch in the Bibe that is questionable but it also is the Book of God. You're thick so you wouldn't understand! Mike, UK: England is my country too you prat. My grandfather fought in two world wars for this country and as a sugeon saved many lives. My family and I continue to pay taxes and I educate the future of tomorrow. I am proud to be English and a British Citizen. I am also a Muslim. So what! If you saw me you would not question my identity were it not for my hijab. TO Rom(Luxembourg): Drugs, alcoholism, STD (AIDS/Chlamydia), murder - these pose a greater threat to Western Society - matters which are far less prevalent in Muslim societies (which have not been interfered with by the West). If anything, the Muslim presence could educate the non-Muslims in Europe on a more robust social set of etiquettes - for this you should be grateful for. Those opposing tyranny in the Muslim countries (eg. Uzbekistan) would be classed as terrorists .... TO Rom(Luxembourg): The mistake you claim is the by-product of European colonisation and interference in Muslim Lands - of which Europe especially the UK has gained considerable wealth. All the Queen's Crown Jewels are stolen from the Taj Mahal in India. One does not expect a bridge to be used one way ... Instead of focusing on what you perceive as
All western countries, but especially the UK made a great mistake by allowing immigration of millions of muslims.Islam is an aggressive and expansionist cult. The majority of muslims will never adapt to western society and lifestyle.The multicultural project has dramatically failed.Now our safety in our own countries is in jeopardy ( Van Gogh case in Holland), because of our own stupidity. The muslim presence in europe is a great threat to us all, but some do not even acknowledge that!rom Rubina,you are right that Faria should get positive & not wallow, but you sound like you feel she should keep quiet to avoid "being exploited" & "fuelling people like Mike" - Sorry, but she's got the right to speak out & highlight a muslim cultural problem that she experiences.She's not alone with her problem & it wont help if she & others keep quiet,to avoid other muslims being tarred with the same brush.Keep it in the open! & again,I note a conspicuous lack of support or sympathy for her here. This for RUBINA in particular.
Rubina - I have posted references to versus within the koran, and asked that YOU reconcile them - however the powers that be on here have not seen fit to print them! So this is a one way street, where only good passages can be represented, and not the evil ones that worldwide evidence shows to be happening! So your references to my knowledge cannot be justifiably referred to!
To Ian: In 1999 Richard Garfield, a professor of clinical international nursing at Columbia University, put the likely mortality figure at 227,000 for children under 5 from August 1991 to 1998, most of them directly or indirectly attributable to the sanctions. (Garfield has raised his “likely” estimate to 350,000.)
Saima, it is such a pity when I see views put forward which are based so much on a lack of historical knowledge. Have you not heard of the Moguls, the Ottamans or even the Moors (in European parlance)? All were muslim empire builders and all had other nations subjucated. Do you as a muslim intend to pay the Indians; Greeks, Bulgarians, Spanish, Serbs etc for their pound of flesh? We all have only one life and looking at some else to owe you a living is just a waste of it! Saima,it sounds like you're happy rolling in the mire yourself.If you dont think the Auzzies are our brothers,imagine how some feel about Brit Muslims supporting other countries purely on the basis that they're "fellow muslims".
I an Indian South African. I currently live in the United Kingdom. I am also a Hindu. I have found that this margilism towards Muslims completely unnacceptable. I also work in the health sector. When 9/11 happened, it was a group of my Muslim Colleagues that were amongst the first to prepare to leave to New York to offer assistance. This was still on offer after it was made aware that this was becauseof 'Islamic fundementaism'. Racial profilling is so cloudy that people never see the good Mike, Newcastle: Yes, all is at the Will of Allah. I assume that's why you are as thick as two short planks! Mike, Newcastle: What say you of George W Bush? Afterall he has a hotline to God, does he not? He's on a modern day crusade. I assume that's ok with you! In August2003 australia threatened Asia with slavery & then elimination. When a australian says he is more British than a Muslim it is laughable. No you stay out & NEVER coame here EVER!!. Also using swaer words show what you are, especailly as this country was built on colonialism it owes us forever. ACCEPT IT!! Munir, Guildford: Thank you for providing the link. I have read this and am shocked at the terribly high 12.5% projected (11% actual) mortality rate. I am shocked at this figure. This is attributed to many things including the Iran war, but the other statements you make, and the implications particularly, are simply not supported by the UNICEF link you provided. I assure you that I am able to do my own research but am asking you for the evidence upon which you made your allegation. It amazes me that so many people have contrbuted to this thread. Most non-Muslims have been extremely vile about Islam and the teachings of the Quran. I cannot see anything negative about other religions. It is not the religion that has commited the crimes. It is man in the name of religion that has. The two are mutaually exclusive. People will now say that believers of other religions have not killed under the guise of their beliefs. Wrong! You only have to look at history. I am not sure if this thread is on the bombs in London or the bombs by London but I thought this would be an interesting contribution - "At least 25,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children - have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by coalition forces ..." Source:BBC/Guardian. No wonder Harold Pinter (Nobel Laureate) called Bush a mass murder. Ian; Please read the link previously given http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084 which provides numerous references on the number of Iraqi child deaths from US proposed sanctions. Ian; The evidence is in this link http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq.html
Mike: You have missed Faria's point completely. Proves my point that you are thick; perhaps you should brush up on your comprehension skills. Faria: You are an articulate girl. You have a wonderful thing at your disposal- your mind. Do something positive with it. Don't wallow in self-pity. It will get you nowhere.
Mike-No, it is people who have misused and ignored the important teachings of equality, peace & tolerance that the Quoran teaches that have 'kept people back'- therefore it being culture (people) and not religion which causes problems.It is you who has a lack of education, describing the prophet as 'confused'for one - I wonder, have you read the whole Quoran in order to make such a judgement? - No thought not because if you had you wouldn't have said the ridiculous things that you did! Sorry Faria, but it is the so-called religion of Islam that keeps you where you are.
Mike, oil keeps my country near the top of the economic heap, but our culture keeps me, as a woman, near the bottom of the evolutionary heap, as you put it. Do not confuse my religion with cultural and political pressures. Mike, Newcastle: I pity the fruits of your loins. They will be thick and stupid just like you! Education, Education Education isn't it the lack of it that places Islamic Countries and peoples at the bottom of the Economic and evolutionary Heap along with the Africans?
Rubina+Amanda: thank you for your answer. Suggesting the problem is ignorance and can be remedied by education places the responsibility to repair the image of Muslims on others (“they have to learn about us”). I wonder how successful this will be - the level of awareness of other religions is probably no higher and these are not viewed with the same suspicion, so ignorance by itself does not breed fear. Education is an important part of reclaiming a tolerant society but it is not the whole. Ian, Beverley, Uk: In answer to your question to me; no not at all. Ignorance breeds contempt and contempt is a very dangerous thing regardless of one's religious beliefs. IAN-The more educated you are on something,the less you fear it, the more you understand it and the more you accept it.U can't form valid opinions on something you know little about.I don't think Rubina's comment was particularly aimed at non-Muslims,just the ignorant, rantings of the uninformed Gilbert, Martin & Paul's of this world.I believe by education (x3)Rubina also meant that myself and my husband have proved that people can be from different cultures and live together happily. Munir, Guildford: Thank you for replying. Please will you supply a link to the evidence? This is a genuine request as I would like to be able to know this for myself as my World view is largely shaped by the BBC and the Guardian! I would very much like omnipresence to know these things for my self, but sadly this has eluded me thus far!
Amanda, London: You have made an ecellent contribution to this thread. To all you ignorant people out there, here we have an example of a Christian woman married to a Muslim man and no doubbt they are extremely happy!
Being the proud Christian wife of a lovely Muslim husband I am dismayed at some of the hateful comments on this board. Paul hates all Muslims, how amazing that he knows every single Muslim in the world to make such a ridiculous judgement. People calling themselves Muslim ARE causing all kinds of evil around the world. However, there ARE people from all kinds of religious and racial backgrounds doing the same thing. Violence is not a Muslim thing, it's a human thing. There's 1 world & 1 people. The big fish will always eat the little fish; by hook or by crook. Munir - yes politics is full of bullying in all matters major & minor, but surely your problem is with the security council en bloc, because all permanent members have the veto. The French, Chinese & Russians didnt use theirs...
To Ian and Russ. UN sanctions are imposed by the UN Security Council, which includes the USA - who behind the scenes bully other countries to support their resolutions (see how the US have bullied France & Germany when they refused allow overflights to bomb Iraq?). Please look at this link where Madelaine Albright (US Secretary of State) does not deny that they were US sanctions: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084.
Munir, Guildford - do you have any evidence to support your claim of 1m children died? As a correction I think it was UN sanctions rather than US and I think that the sanctions allowed oil to be exchanged for medicine and food but Sadam chose to avoid this. Pat Rattigan, not sure of your point but obviously you don't know London. All the explosions are within 1 - 1.5 miles of Kings Cross. I work in the area and have lived in London for most of my life. I am sure you have some kind of conspirancy theory but saddly this is let down by your lack of geographic knowledge. Munir,you'd do well to remember that it was UN not US sanctions - I recall Saddams army seemed to do better with sanctions than the medical services for some reason ? The July 7 05 : 07.40 : Luton to London train was cancelled. The next train to London, the 07.48, arrived at London King’s Cross at 08.42: seven minutes before and miles away from the detonations of the first explosives. ref. Mr C Hudson, Communications Manager, Thameslink Ltd., All credit to the people running this site. I am anti islam but not as racist. That just all comes from personal experience. However, it is to the credit of the people running this site that they let everything through. Racist, EITHER SIDE OR COLOUR, will only expose their ignorance be they white or black, christian or muslim. Well done. Non-muslims (Bush/Blair) have caused the death of 100 times more Muslims than all the so called terrorist attacks by Muslims. Who are the terrorists and who are the ones who have tolerated the most....? Have we forgotten the 1 million Iraqi children that have died from US sanctions, when before they had an infant mortality rate lower than the UK ... they were not even worth a two minute silence. Blair did not even care about the feelings of British Muslims at all. Why should we help Blair .... Shock and awe was the first catchphrase, liberation from Tyrany, lets rock and roll..maybe allah(SWT) tried out a selection of his WMD (Waves of mass destruction). Allah very kindly bestowed his mercy on us then allowed Katrina to do the necessary. The Koran [11:25-48] refers to the same flood event, adding that the earth swallowed the water, the boat came to rest on the mountain Al-Judi, and one of Noah's disbelieving sons drowned in the flood. Katrina is ANTI-ARK an anagram to remember.
Russ, evidently I am a minority then. I do not stick up for those who supposedly kill in my name and commit murder both in the eyes of man and God.
I feel I should expand,because Rubinas point is a common one - The IRA bombers did not view their situation as a war on Catholicism (see my point to GK in these threads),& nor did other Catholics-or we'dve heard from Catholics the world over.It does appear tho,that any problem involving Muslims & non Muslims incurs support from Muslims from everywhere-no matter what Muslim regime,it's all a war on Islam...This makes people suspicious for obvious reasons. Rubina,sorry to labour this point,but nobody slagged off the Catholics because the Irish bombers werent bombing for a catholic cause,it was nationalistic-THEY didnt make it part of the equation.These bombers do & thats why people end up like Martin.It may not be right,but its understandable.It often seems that many Muslims dont wish to be secular & despite their many cultural differences appear to stick up for fellow Muslims whatever the situation,yet say little about muslim on muslim problems. Martin, London: You are not racist, just ignornat.
martin,london.....maybe you should try talking face to face with some muslims....you may find you get a different edge on them,muslims on the whole are not bad people.....and the so called muslims that bombed london were actually wearing wesrtern clothing.
When I came to london I didn't know what a muslim was. I now know! I was never rascist, but now I feel I have been cornered into distrusting these people.
why don't you take your xxxx religion somewhere else. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE UK xxxx OFF and go back to some xxxx country that supports you. You would have next to nothing if it wasn't for the west, and you seem quite happy to take our priveledges and give nothing in return. We aren't perfect but we're better than your xxxxx up world. so fit in or xxxx off. Russ: Touche again! Yes Saddam was more secular, but let us not forget who helped him get there. It would appear that many dictators around the world have had a helping hand from "The West" and when they get too big for their boots, they loose favour, and become the "enemy". History always repeats itself, and we never learn. Economies dictate much, compassion and understanding very little. Everyone please note that on C4 news tonight 2/11 two young men who knew Mohamed sadique Khan said the man on the Al-Jazerra video wasn't him. Rubina,I'd add that perhaps the Shiia & Kurds would feel different about Saddam to your Assyrian friends. Many Germans thought Mr Hitler was a man of order too but I doubt that the Jews were too chuffed with his policies - tho' I'm sure Saddam would appreciate him in that regard...
Rubina,I'd still like to hear from Iraqi"s themselves..& I may as well say it before someone else does - Your Assyrians presumably chose to live here..In 20 years Iraq may be the place to be.Seems to me,secular Muslim countries are generally more reasonable & tolerant.
"May Allah show the world that Islam is about peace and equality and forgivness.
Russ Nash, London: Many Muslims do speak out against what they believe is wrong. But we are not the voice that people want to hear or read about in the news. Sensationalism sells. Boring and normal does not. I know a number of Iraqi's who do not like what is going on in their part of the world and actually believe it was better under Saddam as here was order. These are not Muslims; they are Assyrians. Better the devil you know, springs to my mind. Come have a cup of tea with me...? Adil,YOU might think that the bombers were merely criminals,but its pretty clear that a number of "Muslims" think otherwise...Should those that support them too be publically denounced ? There were a loud few outside the Finsbury park mosque,for example... Whatever,it does seem from your comment that you view the war as a war on Islam...It'd be interesting for us to hear views from various generations of Iraqi's in the UK as to how they they feel about the whole business ??? sallaams
Paul, Glasgow: Methinks you're short of a few sandwiches in that brain picnic of yours. Religion has got nothing to do with race. So by definition, you are not a 'racist'. Ignorant yes, but racsit no! Are you a 'Ranger' supporter or a 'Celtic' supporter. Regardless of where your loyalties lie, even that does not make you racist. Get my point? paul,glasgow,uk.......take a chill pill<<< read some history reqarding the countries you have mentioned then come back and comment.....your not racist just thick. Fine! Go on, call us racist when you try to defend your values. I feel ashamed that this country harbours so many muslims (and extremists among them). Do you want to demonize us by using a scapegoat word like 'racists'? Fine! I'm pround of it 'cause I know it's right to hate muslims. Look what they've done and keep on doing in Checenia, Afghanistan and Kashmir. Pure monsters, that's what you are. David and Goliath come to my mind.
Implementing a shoot-to-kill policy is bound to result in mistakes (i.e. deaths of innocent civilians). However, in asking us to accept this, the Government has ignored that England is not Palestine, that the Metropolitan Police is not an army of occupation, and that the majority of the British electorate are not pursuaded that the word "regretable" can adequately atone for the act of taking someone's life because of his "Muslim" appearance. This policy, I believe, is as racist as the bombers'. Its comical you try to denigrate the Observer, which is one of the most respected newspapers in the world compared to the MCB who are fundamentalist cranks talking rubbish. The UK is a post religious soceity if Muslims don't like it they can go back to their failed states. 1.6 million muslims have far too many bodies and influence already and it needs reinging in. All you lot care about is if some Muslim gets searched or arrested. Most wars and trouble in the world is caused by Islam. Without any inquiry most people seem so sure "who done it".The police gave you this information just as they gave you the information about the Stockwell shooting.Let's have a full and open inquiry before we decide.....
Nick, with great respect, no one should judge someone because of how they dress. I wear niqab because I respect Allah swt and my family. I might argue that to just wear hijab is enough in the UK, and that it would help me to integrate, but because of the reaction we get on the streets, I cannot go out much anymore, only when really necessary. So I am imprisoned by the reaction of people to me. Faria - with respect, if you walk around with a niqab on your face, thereby never feeling fresh air or the sun on your skin, it isn't British people who are sentencing you to a life of imprisonment - it's yourself. To Wagid Ray - you seem very anxious to drive a wedge between Britain and the US. No doubt you see us as a strong alliance and it worries you, therefore you try to divide us. It won't work. We have been strong friends for two centuries, our historical and cultural ties are far too deep for your culture to even make a dent. At the "anti war/anti american" rally in London, I couldn't see the individuals for headscarves. What does that tell you about which "British" citizens dislike the USA? Utter disgrace. bring back hanging for these criminals Do yourselves a favour, British Muslims. Tackle this problem within YOUR community. Your inaction and lack of condenation in the past does not help. the most important thing for the Muslim community to do is denouce the extremist lunatics, help bring them to justice and ensure their Muslim children are taught the true Muslim teachings of peace, tolerance,love and equality for all. When the childeren no longer hear hatred comming from parents, uncles, cousins and places of worship the hatred will stop. Iain, did you expect the Irish people to stop the IRA or Loyaltists committing acts of terrorists? Did you expect the Catholic Church to sort it out? These bombings do not come from Islam anymore than Judasim can be blamed for the behaviour of Israel. Frank I understand what you are saying, I also agree with Iain's point. It is time for the decent Muslim people to stand up and condem and root out the evil amongst them. If you dont then peoples tolerance will turn to distrust and suspicion. This is a country where no one has anything to fear apart from Bad elements across all communities. Why doesnt the decent respectable Muslims
Wajid I disagree with you to a point about Muslims coming for the money. Many of the Muslims that I know, especially Muslim Women, have come her because they say they can be who and what they want. Free from oppression and tradition in their country of origin (muslim countries) they can realise their potential. I have no problem with people coming to earn a living but leeches like Bakri who just come here to steal from us all (muslims included) must be sent back before they cause a civil war. MIKE one of the reasons muslims or any non/ muslim wants to come to this country is for work, to make money, if they could make the same amount over there, would be no reason to come here...as for the asylum seekers they want a better way of life, apart from the four suspects who were dropped as children. I condemn all killing of innocent people. The result is that people like me have even less freedom than we did before, because our families are now scared as well as reluctant to let us have a life outside the home. The people who call me a terrorist because I wear niqab are sentencing me to life imprisonment. Whilst I appreciate that the bombings have changed our society I really feel that the good people from all cross sections of the community should stand together and not let this or any other goverment strip us all of Human rights. This is not just about picking on Muslims or their rights! So why dont you all stop wasting time blaming each other and do something positive instead of letting a few sad individuals who have been brainwashed ruin our daily lives. What exactly is wrong with Islamic countries that Muslims don't want to live in them?
A lot of people commenting here
At his press conference on 5/Aug/05 Tony Blair said"What happened we can see that very easily."Well no we can't actually.
I JUST LIKE TO SAY TO ALL THOSE SO CALLED MUSLIM REPRESNTIVE IN UK. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU BEND OVER BACKWARDS AND FILL YOUR PRESTIGE AND POCKETS ON THE SIDE FOR THIS NON-MUSLIM LEADERS, THEY WILL NEVER EXCEPT YOU AND WOULD ALWAYS MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID IN THE EYES OF THE UMMAH. FEAR ALLAH, SPEAK THE TRUTH AND FIGHT FOR JUSTICE,NOT YOUR OWN BENEFITS.YOU WILL BE QUESTIONED ON YOUR ACTION IN DAY OF JUDGEMENT. Sneha,obviously you're into conspiracy theories - I'm assuming you believe the latest video release from al Q as a cia/mi5 fabrication ? Nice one - there was no holocaust in WW2,the Titanic didnt sink & theres no such thing as suicide bombers either.Ive got my doubts that theres even been a war in Iraq myself ! Sorry about the great white conspiracy mate - Let us pray that the truth will out, & that we'll see it when its obvious... i wud jst luk to say that i knw dat was a very bad thing dat hapend 2 all kind of religon ppl bt i beleve frm my hart dat it wsnt muslims cuz muslims wudnt wna bomb a place wer ders alot of muslims n i dnt understand y da white comunity is accusinonly muslims n getin hold of ne person hu luks lyk a muslim.. i think the british goverment is bein racist theirself by putin muslims as a scape goat. dis kind of vicous act can neva be linkd wid islam becuz islam is a religon of peace!!!!
JO,yorks.....it was not that long ago that your american cousins were actually fighting the british simply because they did not want to be a part of the british nation...check your history....and yes some leaders are cruel how ever saddam killed thousands and now americans are killing thousands...and has for the bombing one suspect as admitted that they were bombing in response to the american led invasion of iraq and afghan. the reason i was here and not there simple im not a iraqi. The Muslim News editor was on BBC News 24 on 31st July protesting that the imams and the mosques should not be blamed or accused. But there have been videos of imams in the mosques preaching hatred and violence on TV. The evidence is there.
There is no excuse for killing innocent people anywhere. No religion allows it. As an ex-Christian I can say that there are parts in all Holy Books which can be misused by fanatics be they of any religion. Also the war in Iraq cannot be used as an excuse. How come Muslims did not complain when Iraq went to war with Iran with USA backing???
Toby lee i'm a true Brit and DO NOT blame the US for the bombing of our country.We blame the the people who are fanatic about a religion.WAJID muslims have been killing each other for years and the leaders of muslim countries are very cruel to their own people!So really you all preach what you want when it suits If saddam was so great and holy why wer'nt you there instead of here!!?..Why on earth can't you all stop making excuses.I love USA and alot of brits do God bless you America,our cousins “an extreme and evil ideology whose roots lie in a perverted and poisonous misinterpretation of the religion of islam is how blair put it
Sorry wajid, i and eveyrone ive talked to blames the crazy terrorist muslims for the bombings. I dont blame all muslims, i have alot of good friends who are muslim and i respect them and their religion. They are in large peaceful and contribute to our country. There are some who have been brainwashed into thinking that the west is waging a war on islam. Toby lee usa. you might feel a deep connection to the british cousins,but the fact of the matter is that the british blame you people for the bombs we are now suffering, if you did not invade other countries and taken us along with you then we would not be in this predictment now. and dont say 9/11 happened before the invasions because the usa have been killing and bombing people for years before 9/11. god bless uk....forget the usa. People here in the US feel a deep connection to our British cousins. Our prayers are with you. It's time for the US and UK and ALL western nations to deport all muslims. God bless the UK. Cherie blair spouting about human rights again. Nothing to do with her making a fortune out of the act is it? Originally from Bradford, yes I am the so called white flight. Muslims have said they will not be happy until their is a muslim flag flying from every town hall in Britain. Was it not extreme muslims who blew up the plane over Lockabie, was that not in the 80`s.......long before Afghanistan and Iraq. A lot of you have very short memories! Yes I left Bradford because I was sick to death of the demands made by the Muslims in my old town. Obviously recent events have caused upset throughout society in the UK. I wish everyone would just get along instead of hating one another. Unfortunatley if these attacks continue Islam will get a bad name for itself and understandably people will grow a natural hate for the religion. So i pray it stops now before society goes crazy.. ordinary block (wasp)not frightened of anybody but Israel needs sorting out their arrogance is stunning , but now I feel threatened by these extreme muslim threats to my lifestyle . I strongly feel that religion and politics should be separated ,I was brought up a catholic but with Nuns throwing dusters @ you they can not be holy so for me their is no God only Science and democracy - 1 man 1 vote , 1 woman 1 vote all equal , and I truely believe with every last breath in that - england forever I find it disturbing that you condemn the London bombings yet with the same breath you say that the war in Iraq has radicalised the Muslim youth.Islam will always find a way to continue its savagery.
Muslims so called leaders or speakers of the media need question there own stand in islam, are they with the muslims or non-muslims. they seem to be bending backwards to the governments claims.
Sonya Ahmed - Id like to think that you've spent much of your life protesting about muslim on muslim atrocites too, or dont they happen ?
What are you cunt's on, British muslims, i live on the other side of the world and i'm still more British than you cunt's will ever be.God save our Queen and fuck your alla.The next muslim i come across i'm going to kick the shit out of him. a touch of hypocrisy, Jon from Cardiff? The world's most powerful nation carpet bombed Afghanistan. UK bombed Iraq relentlessly for over 10 years, indiscriminantly killing civilians and withheld critical healthcare items finally cutting off the water supply. I suspect you were satisfied with the "reasons" given there. killing a million iraqi children under age 5 for your "potential" protection. bet you didnt protest then at the gall of Bush&Blair to give justifications for murder of innocents. I cannot believe what I read in some of these comments. Whenever certain muslims say that they condemn the bombings, they then go on to say we must find out WHY they happened. There is absolutely no reason on earth that can justify this kind of barbaric action...many of use disagree with wars, policies etc. but we are a democracy...we get change in this country by our VOTE not by the use of bombs. Shame on anyone who tries to give reasons for this disgraceful, sinful behaviour. To Brad: Do you know your true heritage? You consider yourself to the a 'True Brit'. Am i then to deduce that you are an 'Anglo-Saxon'? What does that mean to you? Read with interest comments here. I was never in favour of the Iraq war, so why tar me with the same brush. If muslims considerthemselves to be peace loving, then why are they blosing up innocent people. If they wish a war, then fine, but on the battlefield, not behind masks, etc. OK so they are a few in the UK, one and half million or so, so lets get rid, or label them as muslims so we know they are potential threats. If they moan about the west, then fine, but P off back to your origins. To zak, Jack and Ali."If at the end of the First World War we had done what we promised the Arabs, which was to let them be free and have their own governments, and kept out of Arab affairs, and just bought their oil, rather than feeling we had to control the flow of oil, I suspect this wouldn't have arisen." by one of Tony Blair’s own, Ken Livingston, the London Mayor and a member of the Labour party
I feel the muslim leaders that are well known are not doing enough to protect the muslim community. They are preaching how they condemn the bombings, as muslims we all do, why do we have to justify ourselves to society. Muslim leaders should be helping the muslim communities by bringing them together. many muslims today are divided, we need leaders to bring us together so less of us scared of the recent backlash against muslims. To Jack Delaney. You fail history miserably, the Saud family ruled the Nejd (Riyadh) area or Arabia. They and the Hashemites (Jordanians who ruled the Hijaz region, Western Arabia) were always in a power struggle. The British agent, Lawrence Of Arabia successfully allowed the Arabs to rebel against the Ottoman Empire, after kicking the turks out, the British succesfully manipulated and carved out Arabia and the Emirates surrounding it by empowering powerful local tribes who remain this day.
many of the muslim commentators appear as apologists for the terrorists. there are many, many problems in our world yet we do not respond in this violent way. why do muslims appear to only air anti western grievances eg issues such as victims of US bombing in iraq etc; they appear deafeningly silent on muslim on muslim/non muslim injustices eg sudan, the indiscriminate killing of innocent people in iraq etc
Theres no point blaming all Muslims for this criminal acts, You've got to find out why people do this - and what we might have done to prevent it. Your not going to stop it from just talking about terrorism. What made these people take thier own lives and kill many Innocents? Could the slaughter of 100,000 Innocent men women and children in Iraq or the Carpet bombing of entire villages in Afghanistan have something to do with it? Israels continued slaughter of Palestinians? War on terror? In the U.S when a Christian activist kills an abortion provider all Christians are blamed. When a government worker gets paid for not showing up to work, all government workers suffer. Muslims shouldnt be surprised if they are all blamed for the violent acts carried out in the name of "the religeon of peace". Until the Muslim community stands and condemns these acts without reservation, it will only get worse for those who simply want to embrace the freedoms their own country will never offer. It looks as though Blair is learning lessons from his mate Bush. Carry out dreadful attacks, blame the Muslims and then bring draconian action which then affects every citizen. The ignorant American public fell for it line sink and hook. I just hope that all decent minded White British people dont fall for the same trick Why the hell should the police explain to you scum why they shot an asian man dead in london. You muslims have rights in this country because we,the true British, have given them to you. You have historically never had the guts to stand up to tyranny in your own countries. All you do in our country is abuse our hospitality. Learn your place and shut up and tow the line. wajid ray
I think that the British Muslim who blew himself up brings disgrace to Britian. We let these people be born and grow up and make lives for themselves here and this is how they repay us. Weather these people were born in Britain, or not makes no difference, where is the RESPECT for our county and OUR poeple?? My heart goes out to the families who have lost their loved ones, and i will not have faith until these terrorist are all dead, just like our poor, poor people. To have the younger Muslims attend these meetings I think is a good idea as Tony Blair needs to receive their assistance.Question... when if ever has any Muslim ...young or old ...ever come forward with information...before a bombing...to advise police on suspected activities within any Mosque.Denouncing the acts is good ...but the Police need assistance in detecting any suspicious activity/planning that may occur in their Mosques.
more muslim idiot bombers in london. wake up will you. you are proving to be cave dwelling fools. well done to the brave london police for putting bullets in the bastards head. islam is clearly not peace, but ancient, backward and pathetic. if you are so concerned about iraq - by all means go and live there and stop scrounging from this 'evil country of infidels'. I really have no time for religions of any kind whatsoever and am a secular socialist in the international tradition of that politics. From this viewpoint it seems to me that most of what is said here misses the point, and that the problems here are not problems of moral or religious difference but of class antagonism brought about by the exploitation of labour by an owning class as active in "moslem" as secular societies in its determination to maximise its own resources of power and wealth. A disturbing time for everybody i feel,
Following 9/11, many Muslims in the UK refused to believe that Al Queda were responsible for the attacks citing requests for further evidence. This level of denial could explain the four innocent london bombers. Extremist Islamics are brainwashing your children with the promise of Eutopia on death. Do not continue to live in denial. It is not enough to argue that Islam is not a violent religion. You must take action from within your own society which includes an acceptance of infidels. Ali, I am afriad you need to check your history old chap. The biggest Oil producer Saudi Arabia does not have appointed by the West. The Kingdom is ruled by the Al Saud family who took the country by force with their Wahibbi allies in the 1920's. Unfortunately it seems that they would rather spend their money on spreading anger to the West rather than on their own people. It is a pity that they don't train their own people rather than have to rely on over 6 million foreign workers. ..... interests. You will find example upon example when u read history where not just Muslims have been used and abused but other people also.
Marcelo from Brazil - the Muslim community has done nothing wrong. It was (if it can be proven in a court of law) a few individiauls who did the bombings right? Why is the shift turning towards the whole Muslim community? Who was it that created the mujahideen/Taliban? It was the Pakistan gov. backed by the US gov. so that the Taliban could do the dirty work for the US by removing Russian influence in that region. These are the dirty tactics western gov's use to achieve their 'national'....... this comment is for david who said "if all muslims went home, this would not happen" fair comment however what do you propose we do with the 1000,s of white english that have converted to islam.....send them were? the comments from john and his sidekick w.man both from leeds...first of all there are more whites scrounging off the states then ethnics, theres more whites in prison for breaking british laws then ethnics so get your facts right before you start chatting vermin.second this one is for your friend "get off our lazy arses and sort out are own countries" thats rich coming from you considering 9 times out of 10 it was the british that caused the problem during its british empire days. FACT John and W.Man from Leeds. Have you studied your history? Don't you know the western world and its modern technology was built by stealing the resources (oil, mineral resources) from the Muslim countries? Your rulers appointed puppets to keep the Muslims suppressed. Please keep your minds open and don't listen to everything the media says - cos most of it is lies and progaganda to keep people away from the truth - Islam. By the way John - where did you get your stats from? Your imagination? i think that the people that are doing the bomings are selfish and crul they say they are doing it for islam but islam means peace and i'm a muslim and i say they are not now muslims are getting are bad name and the pupils that involed in this should be punished I do not believe that ordinary muslims are not responsible for the terror attacks on London. Infact ordinary were just as much victims as anyone else. But I am concerned when Muslims say that people have a grievance against the west. But why are they so ignorant towards persecution Muslims perpetrate in other places around the world. It is all not one sided. At least the Muslims in the west have freedom to worhship. This is not the case for Christians in some Muslim countries. Insane acts like the attacks in London will stop only through efforts made by muslim communities themselves. Westerners generalization of muslims as guilty of what happened maybe due to the fact that within one billion and five hundred million muslims in the world there are very, very few moderate voices. Thus, it sounds like a tacit approval of what radicals perpetrate all over the world. Like ninety nine percent of the british population, we think it is about time that you muslim scumbags realised that if you want to continue scrounging off the british taxpayer,then you should learn to abide by british laws. "It's really not a number I'm terribly interested in."
All you muslims ever do is winge and moan like a load of old pigs about how hard done by you are. Try getting off your lazy arses and sorting your own countries out,before bleeding honest hard working western societies dry, and complaing that they don't do enough for you. When will the muslim leaders be having a 2+2+2+2+2+2+... min silence for the innocent muslims that have been killed by state terrorists and extremists (Western governments)? Islam dosnt allow the killing of innocent people - CAN WE NOT REMIND BUSH AND BLAIR OF THIS? I can only agree with Muhammad Sharif Bajwa on this one, how can the police jump to the conclusions that they did. After all four men come into London together go their separate ways and all are on trains and a bus that are bombed – this could happen to anyone. Also what about this so called evidence of one of their houses fall of home made explosives? Don’t we all have explosives in our bathroom?
Watford Muslim Community Project with other organisations,Community leaders and the whole Muslim Community of Watford have learnt with horror of the resent tragedy in London which clamied the lives of innocent people.The Muslim Community utterly codemns these atrocities and expresses their deep sorrow and sympathy for the families and friends of the victims.It is the resolve of entire Muslim Community to work with the Police and the other Agencies to bring the perpetrators to justice. Could I just say how bigotted and prejudiced this newspaper is, I cannot believe that you have posted some of the views of a minority of idiots who are attacking Islam. Do you not realise that you have a responsibility to your readership, posting these views is just going to clearly incite anger from your readers and cause yet more division. Or is this what you want? Tony Blair said 'They (Islamist terrorists)wont change our country or our way of life','we will NOT be defeated' so WHY on earth are you and Mr Bush invading other countries trying to change their way of life? The government of both UK and US have a hidden agenda behind the veil of the phoney War on Terror. They invade an Islamic country and if they fight back they are tagged 'Islamic Terrorists' when in fact BUSH and BLAIR are the biggest Terrorists. But Asad Ali, the Muslims being killed in Iraq are being killed by Muslims ! The UK forcs are trying to stop the killing. I suspect that you would be against our government whatever it did. For goodness sake what we need now is for Muslims to support 'their' country, to speak of it with pride, and to totally disassociate themselves from any one who supports terror acts in any direction. If indeed the evidence 'if there is any' can prove that the four accused indeed carried out this attack, then any rational thinking person would realise that britains involvement in the illegal War on Terror which has killed many hundreds of thousands innocents both in Iraq and Afghanistan has to be a motivating factor, why not the british people vent thier anger on thier goverment which brought this Terror to thier homeland, The media has been fuelling anit-muslim sentiment since July 7. Islam does not allow the killing of innocent people whether in London or Baghdad. However, why must Muslims apologise for the blasts that took place?
I consider myself non-racist and I want to live in a peaceful world.Today I was at an equality and diversity workshop and was told that it is not right to put pictures of the queen on the wall at work (old peoples home) it might offend other minority groups.I respect national identity when I am staying in another country.Do people really want this level of political correctness or is this inciting resentment when previously there was none? Please respond. People, please dont play into the hands of the terrorists, its exactly what they want for, westerners and muslims to hate each other.. its crazy we all live together in relative peace and harmony. Rise above the hate shown by some on both sides in this forum and show respect and compassion in these sad and tragic times. Let us learn and make this country a better place for all its inabitants. Thank you. British polish is jumping towards conclusion before mature investigation like PM Tony.
To David.
Comparisons are made between London bombings & other countries. The only intelligent comparisons we can draw are that it always the innocent who are the victims. People always seek to join a side, it would be too easy to say that the two sides of this debate are between Muslims & non-Muslims. Taliban persecute innocent, saddam Hussein persecuted Muslims in Iraq, British American persecute Iraq, Sunni Muslim kill shite Muslims. We are all just pawns in a game born of mans anger,jelousy & greed.
These bombings make me sad. I have not been allowed outside of the house since they happened. My family are scared. Muslim community, be strong and stand up against the minority who use the name of Islam to be destructive and kill. Please show this strength and solidarity by marching,protesting and condeming on the streets. I beleive that these terrorists are just using Islam as a front to their cause. 99.9% of Muslims are peacful. Like 99.9% of christians peacful. The 0.1% gets all the publicity and this breeds hatred amongst others. I condem all the terrorists whoever they are. They should not hide behind Islam as this is a peacful faith. In response to -David,United Kingdom - Yes David I remember it well, being an Irish woman who lived through the IRA campaign in London. If we all went home; if all of the immigrants who live in London, some 10 generations in, Irish,Asian, Chinese, African, if we all went home; David, this is my home. Why don't you understand this? Firstly, I believe that Islam is a faith that promotes love and acceptance overall. Like all religions, sometimes there will be those followers, who will interpret things to suit their own ends. I hope that no one is affected by hatred or anger and left to live their have in harmony and peace. I have a few friends, who happen to be Muslim and couldn't bear the thought of any kind of abuse or hate to befall them. I hope that their are very, ery few(ideally none),people out there who encouter this IF AL MUSLIMS GO HOME THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN ! Just a message of support to
There are many things that do not add up with it all...but the thing is what now? i think it is important to question things, the same people said Iraq had WMD...we cannot believe everything we read or hear. I agree with Nudrat's comments, lets look at these issues rather than get freaked out that anyone could become a 'suicide bomber', you just can't tell! This is a crucial time for us all to start coming together. The cultural gap between Muslims and the rest of UK society is too large. That UK-born men attacked their own people is enough. Last Thursday I narrowly missed the King's Cross bomb and had a horrible experience but on Sunday I toured my local mosque for the first time and had a great experience. There need to be more open days like this and we need to start mixing socially more with each other. Dear Sir/Madam
My sympathies go to the families and friends of the bomb victims,may they be blessed with courage,strength and patience in these hard times..
Peace
go home to your own country of origin I felt moved to write to you after seeing awful images of Mosques in Britain attacked on the news. I wanted to let you know that just as the terrorists do not represent Islam, the people who target Muslims and Mosques in the UK do not represent the feelings of a vast majority of non-Muslims.
The press in Britain have, and will continue to demonise Islam because they feel their readers align themselves to such sentiments. Unfortunately, past topics have included not just terrorist outrages, but such excesses as the Salman Rushdie affair. Islam is thus seen as reactionary and intolerant of criticism to the point of murder. Now is the time to sieze the moral "high ground" and issue a UK-sourced Fatwah aimed at rooting out all Islamic extremists within the community. Can it be done? As a British Muslim, I too condemn the attack on London last week. However, I equally condemn the terrorist bombs dropped on civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq by us. We can't have these double standards. If the UK or the USA decides to attack a country it's in the name of freedom and democracy. The USA attacked Afghanistan for revenge against sept. 11 and this was fine by us all. But if someone attacks us for revenge against our policies, it's terrorism. We, in the UK, are equally terrorists. To blame the Muslim community is as crazy as blaming all Catholics in the world for the IRA terror. It makes no sense to hold your community responsible for the acts of these young men. We need to know how we failed them,how we allowed this hatred to grow so strong? What could we have done to heal it? What can we do to change the circumstances that created it? None of this excuses the taking of a single life, but until we understand and act on that understanding, more innocent blood will flow. Muslims MUST demonstrate their opposition to this warped belief of violence. Why not try to organise a HUGE Muslim/multi-faith/non-faith peace rally/march to show the sick minds that the majority WANT to live together peacefully. Show the world that all faiths and colours CAN & DO live together peacefully and democratically around the world.
I saw a news item that The Muslim News had received many hate emails. This sickened me. I am a Christian & I want my Muslim friends to know that in no way do I associate them with the evil London bombers, whose individual hateful actions have affected all of us. This world is not a perfect place but as long as we all live by the motto Honi soit qui mal y pense (shame on him who thinks evil of it) we can live together peacefully. That is what I hope & pray for together. Peace be with you. There is and will be as you call it Islamophobia in this country and this is because Muslims are bombing our country. We are a tollerant society but this is a declaration of war! You need to understand that the good Muslims in this country who are welcome need to be seen to be doing something about the minority of fanatics. Clearly the young muslims who did this were obviously brainwashed to do these evil acts by more senior members of your faith. Please for the love of God act now! I have just heard on the
salamz, just wanted 2 say that i am sorry to hear those ignorant pple that have sent those derogatory and blasphemy comments about Islam because of the terror attacks. We just have to remain and firm and patient and let Allah sort them out. Thank you I am deeply ashamed that my countrymen have sent hate mail to you after the London bombings. Please accept that the overwhelming majority of us are nomal good people who are happy to live in multi-cultural Britain. I doubt most people understand christianity properly let alone Islam. We must all try harder now. - Best Wishes It's ashame that some muslims have misunderstood the meaning of Jihad and jihad el nafs and have commited such atrocities!What has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and 2 many muslims in the world is unforgivable but it's still not a reason 2kill innocent british civilians. If anything it has given us muslims a bad name and are now perceived as terrorists.May Allah show the world that Islam is about peace and equality and forgivness. I am a Christian and was very sad to see the negative emails you are being sent. I believe with all my heart that people of faith must work together and stand together, respecting one another. I realise there may be a small element within the Muslim faith who are prepared to carry out such atrocities, but of course so there are within each faith, as we witnessed in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s. Violence never pays. Love must prevail and people of faith must live love in their lives. After seeing the Evening news, surely the muslim community must police the situation themselves.
Religion is the root of ALL Evil. If you want to live in england please have the decency to behave as we do, if not sod off back where you belong or face the consequences you muslims have now got to wake up to the fact the the rest of the country hates you. take your pathetic, murdering and idiotic views back to the caves. you dont deserve to live in our free society, you are scum. It goes without saying that these attacts were outragous. We must remain strong as a multicultral society and create a united front against any activities that would try and divide us as a country regardless of race or religion. the bombings just serve to show not only muslim feelings but also africa's feelings against opression by the west who percieve themselves as the the untouchables and saviours of the world. |
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